Kendra Dumbledore (DH)

[chudleycannonsfan]

So, the first thing I thought of when I read the description of Dumbledore's mother Kendra was "Wow, that sounds a bit like Minerva McGonagall!" Jet-black hair, worn in a bun, and if I'm remembering correctly a carved appearance to her face that might resemble MM's sharp features (?). And, extrapolating from things various characters say, maybe a somewhat aloof/distant demeanor that masks a deeper genuine kindness. (Like McGonagall as far as I'm concerned!) Anyway, I definitely think this can be tied into a ADMM worldview, because JK Rowling definitely writes based on the psychological assumption that men are attracted to women who remind them of their mama. Seriously! Ginny Weasley certainly bears a certain resemblance to Lily Potter (long red hair) and while I'm not sure that Hermione looks like a (slimmer) Molly Weasley, she certainly acts like her, and this is even noted in the books several times. Small thing, of course, but I think it's interesting.

By the way, this is my first post and everything, so I have a lot of fanfic to read and stuff, but I'm definitely an ADMM shipper and love over-analyzing everything in the Harry Potter books! So that's my Freudian interpretation of Albus Dumbledore! Haha...God, I've been in college too long...

[beMMADfabulous]

I thought I was the only one that noticed this!!!

[mugglemin]

Eew!!! I certainly hope you're wrong! Yeuch!

And while I take your point that Ginny may resemble Lily somewhat, I don't think we can conclude that JK Rowling definitely follows that line of thought. Nobody takes Freud seriously in Europe anymore...surely?

[MinnyCat]

mugglemin said:

Eew!!! I certainly hope you're wrong! Yeuch!

And while I take your point that Ginny may resemble Lily somewhat, I don't think we can conclude that JK Rowling definitely follows that line of thought. Nobody takes Freud seriously in Europe anymore...surely?

I was thinking that maybe Dumbledore and McGonagall are related in some way..... maybe Kendra had a nother little girl after her husband when to Askaban and she made the father take the little girl..... or maybe its an aunt. I hope thats not what happened, it would really ruin it for me. lol. but thats what I thought of then I read that they looked a lot a like.

This is why JK Rowling's books are so great. I think she probably did this on purpose. It wouldn't be unlike her to.

[Drake]

I noticed that. I was afraid that that meant Min was gonna turn out to be Albus's great-niece or something. Thank goodness it didn't!

I've also noticed the Freudian influences in JKR's romantic... stuff. Suprisingly, this, more than anthing else I've ever read, ever, makes me think that we might, maybe, be... canon?

But see, I'm not sure if I would entirely like that. Huh.

I'm gonna go ponder that now.

[misshoneychurch88]

well my first thought when I read that was AHA! Jo definatly seems to put soem creedence in the Freudian aspects of relationships. whether or ot she beleives everything this particular aspect seems to have a connection, and I think it's too much of a coincedence to have been an accident(unlike Mark Evens, where Evens is a fairly common name)

[MinnyCat]

I have a question for all you guys.... if you are married does your spouse remind you of your Father (or mother), or if you are dating someone does that person remind you of your father (or mother), or if you just like someone does that person remind you of your father (or mother)?

Okay, i posted minnycat's question in the polls area. So go check it out!
admmfics.proboards22.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=polls&thread=1185493693

[EloquentPhoenix]

Eurgh, I deteste Freud and his pseudo-psychosexual theories. It's a bit perverse. But yes she did strike me as similar to Min, very much. But I don't think that's why they would be together. I mean, yes with Harry and Ginny mirroring James and Lily but that mirroring is different to Freud's ideas.

Saying that I would be forced to accept that there is perhaps some Freudian influence, whether or not JKR takes Freud seriously. Personally I'm fine with the idea from Freud that we end up with people similar to the parent of the sex we are attracted to, because I can see it kind of. But it's just the link with the Oedipus and Electra complexes that bothers me.

But, for example, Fleur is nothing like Molly, from the sounds of it Alice Longbottom is nothing like Augusta, equally Hermione is little like Molly, Harry is little like Arthur. It just doesn't work for them all.

But coincidence is something rather rare in the HP world, JKR writes things for reasons. I don't know, to summarise But I'd like to think it gives us more proof without linking it too much to Freud at all.

[MinnyCat]

personally...... my dad can be a jack@$$ so I dont want to marry someone who is like my dad all the time. it would drive up the flippin wall.

[revolutionaryetude]

I remember reading about Kendra Dumbledore and it gave me dejavu with an earlier character having features in common with McGonagall. Mrs. Figg was also had similar features as McGonagall. I wonder why JK Rowling seems to want to share certain features with certain characters?

[chudleycannonsfan]

Ok, so maybe I shouldn't have brought in Sigmund by name. However, I do think there's a pattern here in the Potterverse where the reader is encouraged to juxtapose the mother-in-law to the daughter-in-law. While it's true that Fleur is no mini-Molly, Rowling deliberately puts them at odds all through HBP, culminating in the final showdown at Bill's bedside before Molly accepts her. I think the reader can't fail but to realize they're both VERY strong-willed women who are both deeply devoted to their husbands but also share a tendency to, um, dominate and maybe henpeck them a bit. (Is henpeck PC? I don't know...I think it's pretty appropriate here.) These traits are also shared by Hermione and, while all three do indeed have important differences, I definitely think the theme of those strong-willed Weasley women is intentional. That plus the Lily/Ginny thing just makes me think it's a pattern Rowling falls back on frequently (but not always certainly) for inspiration in her fictional matchmaking.

One more thing - apart from psychobabble, I think a quick comparison of Percival/Kendra and Albus/Minerva just shows again how well-matched ADMM is and why so many ppl think there's chemistry there. Based on the VERY LITTLE we know about the Dumbledores, (the photograph where Harry notes a twinkle in Percival's eyes and Kendra's formal composure) I see a lot of the whimsical eccentricity of Albus and the Minerva's "stiff" (insert line about you'd be stiff too if you'd been sitting on a brick wall all day) personality. It's just fun and natural to put these two together! (Although, I don't know how formally composed McGonagall is when leading a charging cavalry of writing desks into the heat of battle...)

Sorry, long-winded and I didn't actually say must new! I just find this very intriguing...

[mugglemin]

Well, I certainly can't argue with Kendra's description being similar to Minerva's. It did suggest to me that they might be related, however distantly. Who knows. There may be one way to find out though...I'm going to post it as a question on the livechat thingy!

[beMMADfabulous]

I don't think JK was trying to tell us Minerva and Albus were related, no more than she was trying to tell us that Ginny and Harry were related. I'm not going as far as saying that JK had it all planned in the Freudian aspect of things, either.

Think of it this way- Harry was a lot like his father, who was attracted to Lily. Harry's probably just attracted to the same type of girl that his father was, and Ginny is most like Harry's mother. Maybe that ties in to Albus and Minerva as well. I hope that made sense!

[furandfeathers]

My first thought honestly was that Minerva was Ariana Dumbledore. And I was very sad until they told us for sure that Ariana was dead.

[tabbycat]

I noticed that ;D but it wasn't the kind of thing I felt like saying out loud... lol

I think that most Victorian women dressed like that... and Minerva is certaintly similar to a Victorian woman in that aspect. I seriously wonder why she did that, though. Why not just make Kendra blonde or something.. just to distinguish her from Mcgonagall more? hmmm...

[EloquentPhoenix]

Yeah, but just changing characters for the sake of it... I don't think it works. I thought she might be Ariana also then I thought 'No, she can't be, she's too young' and then I hoped and hoped for the rest of the book until we found out she was dead. I agree with beMMADfabulous.

[tabbycat]

I agree as well. Now that I think about it, changing Kendra's appearance would have been a cheesey move. It did strike a cord with me about how similar they looked, even though I'm sure their personalities are miles apart.. so if you think about it that way I suppose they ARE entirely different, so their similar appearance doesn't really matter

[hpimperfections]

I think it's probably just coincidence. I really don't like Oedipus Complex-related stuff and I try to avoid thinking about it as much as possible.

[Drake]

chudleycannonsfan said:

I see a lot of the whimsical eccentricity of Albus and the Minerva's "stiff" (insert line about you'd be stiff too if you'd been sitting on a brick wall all day) personality.

I always had the most perverted interpretation of that line...

[beMMADfabulous]

eloquentphoenix said:

I agree with beMMADfabulous.

Thank you.

[tabbycat]

bemmadfabulous said:

I don't think JK was trying to tell us Minerva and Albus were related, no more than she was trying to tell us that Ginny and Harry were related. I'm not going as far as saying that JK had it all planned in the Freudian aspect of things, either.

Think of it this way- Harry was a lot like his father, who was attracted to Lily. Harry's probably just attracted to the same type of girl that his father was, and Ginny is most like Harry's mother. Maybe that ties in to Albus and Minerva as well. I hope that made sense!

exactly ;D I think it's just a coincidence.

[misshoneychurch88]

Think of it this way- Harry was a lot like his father, who was attracted to Lily. Harry's probably just attracted to the same type of girl that his father was, and Ginny is most like Harry's mother. Maybe that ties in to Albus and Minerva as well. I hope that made sense!

Thats really the logical, not creepy way of looking at the Freudian thing, nd it makes sense. I do, however, sincerly hope it is wrong in my case, but right in Dumbledores

[Pingpongfreak]

Actually, I always kind of compared Hermione to Lily, more than anyone else. But that could just be me.

I think Freud is more of a subconscious thing, therefore I don't see it as perverse. If you find a certain trait in someone that someone you grew up with had as well (like a parent), it's a kind of familiar, comforting feeling. It triggers this emotion in back of your mind, and it's really soothing.

It's kind of like when you turn on the TV and find out that an old cartoon you used to watch when you were young is playing. It's familiar territory that goes WAY back, and it goes back far enough to where it's kind of been engraved in your mind, and it can't be disturbed. Therefore making it somewhat subconscious.

[The Anglophile]

I noticed the resemblance right away too, then got really scared, then thought about the icon I have that says "Lily was a popular redhead too! Oedipus complex!" and got really hopeful.

I find it kind of fascinating, personally. I wonder if things like Oedipus complex have different degrees of intensity (Anyone ever seen the movie Spider?) and maybe it's like pingpongfreak said, it's familiar and comforting to have something that even vaguely resembles a parent in your life, even if your concious attatchment to them is entirely different than it is to the parent.

Hm.

(I submitted a question about the hints of Oedipus complex to the live chat...d'you think they'll get answered? I rather doubt it.)

[Pingpongfreak]

Oooh I hope so! But then again, she has a lot of questions...one can only hope, I suppose...=[

[EloquentPhoenix]

It's the Electra complex, not the Oedipus complex if we're comparing Ginny to Lily for Harry, isn't it? Either way, I like the idea before we get to the complexes part, because the complexes aren't to do with choosing a partner similar to a parent.

[Apocalypticat]

Hmm, I'm a little less hostile to Freud than many others appear to be, largely as I look at it from Pingpongfreak's point of view. I regard it as a deeply subconscious thing, and I also don't regard it as an overwhelming rule—simply a tendency, if anything. I certainly wouldn't consciously go for anyone like my father, but I reckon it all depends on your upbringing and, like beMMadfabulous said, the similarity you have to your parents. After all, there appears to be some credence in the theory that our friends tend (note the tend) to look vaguely like us.

Here's my 2 cents: I'm not sure whether Jo is advocating the Freudian idea in all the relationships in HP; I interpreted the similarity between James and Lily and Harry and Ginny as more an emotional, nostalgic thing, a further connection between Harry and his parents. I definitely think the Kendra/McGonagall thing could have been a flag for ADM—twinkling and stiffness? And how many photos have we seen James and Lily in, to flag up the similarity between them and Harry and Ginny? Put that together that Jo was emphasising Harry and Albus's similarities—both at one point obsessed with the Deathly Hallows and both with dead relatives in Godric's Hollow... I'm not sure I'm making sense, but it all seems to suggest a link to me!

[beMMADfabulous]

I agree 100%, Apocalypticat!