Before I leave...

[foci]

I could have called the thread "My Public Suicide" or type the actual name I gave to my rantings, "A Conflict of Interests" but I did not for various reasons.
The board and the ADMM fandom itself underwent changes in the past year and a half that I kept silent about. If things turn out well in my real life I won't return to the world of fanfiction for a long time though and I wanted to explain my bitterness that was obvious in my last posts especially on ffnet before leaving. The analysis of the ADMM fandom concerns everyone.

A Conflict of Interests

(an attempt at an essay)

There is an anecdote in my home country involving a famous poet. The old man sat at a public gathering and listened to a speaker who analysed one of his poems. His companions were greatly amused when upon hearing the speaker state that “With this line the poet meant to suggest that…” the poet reacted with the following line: “The hell meant to suggest that.”

To me besides the obvious, this anecdote sums up the essence of writing, namely that every reader will have his/her own interpretation of the story and that will never be the same.

Once upon a time, about two years ago a couple of avid ADMM fans got tired of being unable to post mature stories on ffnet and in general, for being held a weirdo for shipping ADMM. Thus this board was founded, creating a safe haven for ADMM shippers. At that time, the ADMM fandom was a community. The number of fans was two-digit, and people actually had an interest in learning more about each other no doubt owing to the fact that they were overjoyed about finding people with the same obsession. Unfortunately, some 250 fans and I were not fans then.

This small community, consisting of talented grown-ups and teenagers alike started to set the trend for ADMM stories. Like in every community, they wrote stories centred around arranged marriage, having children, and owing to the special pairing, First and Second World War stories.

Back then, people posted under beta supervision and reviewed the stories they read. Probably, because there were few stories.

Thank goodness, the ADMM pairing gained popularity and more and more people jumped on the bandwagon. Newcomers, including me, found a group of friends, a community here on the board. We were welcome and could read quality stories. However, some worrying tendencies started to raise their ugly heads.

Almost all original ideas have been exhausted. Some of the best writers have already left the fandom for good or were posting at very irregular intervals. The first ADMM fever seemed to have worn off.

While fanfiction.net besides having a ridiculous mature fic policy has some restrictions to posting (3-day wait after signing up before posting your first story), the board made posting seem incredibly easy.

Similarly to the once homogenous ADMM community, which now possessed over 200 members, the number of stories also skyrocketed and, unfortunately, not due to the fresh wave of new ideas.

Additionally, the very purpose of fanfiction started to evolve. When back in the late nineties (1997) I read ER fanfictions there was no such thing as a space for reviews. Back then, the fanatic authors who wrote over 100,000 words and 50 chapters stories wrote because they were aspiring writers and journalists, because they had the urge to write no matter what.

With the review space many things changed. A group of friends politely reviewed each other’s stories, giving the others a nice fuzzy feeling in the stomach but submitting less criticism…causing people to think that they could write their own story who would have never dreamed of it.

Back in the new century (the 21st) as the books came out, the number of fans has risen even more in the HP fandom in general. I have little doubt that ADMM has at least 500 fans at the moment, if not 1000 (with lurkers). But not everyone is computer literate and eloquent in English to sign up as a user.

The growing number of fans started another tendency: everyone started to write who had half a plot bunny.

And thus the world of fanfiction has changed forever. From a group of devoted aspiring writers it become the centre of scribblings of just about everyone.

While the ADMM stories (and no doubt HP stories in general) written in 2004 and before have many gems and almost all are of high quality (some could be published as a successful novel after editing minor grammar issues in no time), since 2004 the offering of fanfiction has a wider range.

This development probably makes most HP fans happy. Shippers are shippers because they want to read stories about how their favourites hook up. They can go to their own bookshelf if they want to write a novel, thank you very much.

ADMM went in no time from a fandom that had few stories to one that had and has so many that it is almost impossible to keep count of them.

Probably due to this fact the number of reviews per story descended. Understandably, from a point of view, for if there is still hundreds of stories to read, why stop before reading them all? We are here for the pleasure of reading after all, are we not?

Like I said in the beginning, every story is different to every reader. I can only talk about what worries me. I’m in my mid-twenties if you needed this detail to put my opinion in context.

The first thing that probably worries me most that ADMM fans are the nicest bunch of people I have ever met. Besides being helpful and good friends this has several drawbacks to it.

1. Out of every 100 review there is about 1, which actually applies to the definition of review.

FIRST DRAWBACK: People are so nice that they do not mention in their review when stories are plagued with grammar mistakes. I have recently begged an author myself to use at least MS WORD before posting. She had a punctuation which made my punctuation in the first chapters of Foretold Love seem correct English. What happened? The following chapters had in addition to the abysmal punctuation missing words and a growing number of typos. The last chapter was barely decipherable. Her reviews? “I love it. Update soon.” Maybe I should pm these reviewers so someone can give me a readable transcript of the fic.

As an author, I’m quite disheartened when I discover my own grammar mistakes after posting and I’m even more disheartened when nobody comments on them. In Fulfilment I deliberately left off the request for kind reviews concerning my grammar. In exchange I was lucky enough to get several warnings… However I still felt a stab when I printed chapter 1 and realised that I misspelled “run” for “ran” on one occasion and nobody commented on it.

SECOND DRAWBACK: Since ADMM fans are a nice bunch of people, they ignore unkind reviews, thinking that the reviewer had a bad day. Surprisingly enough they do not even flame the reviewer. Most of you probably think NOW that I had a bad day and will refrain from calling me names. Because you are nice. Which leads me to the

THIRD AND MOST ALARMING DRAWBACK: The passivity of fans. I have not seen another fandom (and I’ve been in 3 more just in HP) where readers just take note of their authors leaving the fandom forever.

ADMM fans are nice, respectable people who think that authors who decided to step back and not post anymore did this for their own good (which is in most cases true) and deserve respect for their decision.

I agree that being a fan is based on obsession. If that obsession is over, there is no help to it. To name a former (?) fantastic ADMM authoress, Sirabella, she seems to place her own energy nowadays into LOTR etc. instead of ADMM. Bad for ADMM fans good for LOTR fans.

But what about authors who are silent for other reasons? Will Nerweniel post again if we just lay back in our chairs and accept that she studies for university entrance exams? College students have ample free time on their hands, I speak from experience, or at least much more than high school students and working adults do. Will Cranky Cauldron finish Nouveau if newbies do not tell in a review that they are rooting for a new chapter? Will these authors write without proof that people are still interested in their updates?

I believe that we should make a distinction in our reactions when reacting to the absence of authors. In the case of Nerweniel, for example a “I hope you will post after settling at a uni.” seems appropriate. Cranky should be begged mercilessly for an update.

And in the case of mascaret we should have started a petition long ago, especially in the light of her statement that her new chapters will be considerably shorter and thus easier to digest for some readers.

Then again, this is an opinion of a single person, not a community or a fandom, which is always ruled by the Golden Middle.

2. For some reason, there are horrible misconceptions involving the definition and use of reviews in our fandom.

For reasons that can be explained based on the above analysis of the history of fanfiction, people think that

A, Authors who get at least 10 reviews per chapter or have over 100 reviews for a story should be generally ignored. The same insane 10 people will review and make the author happy and thus our ordinary reader will be able to read further updates without doing anything at all. We have all seen how well that worked out in mascaret’s case. (In case you do not know what I'm talking about read the author notes of : www.fanfiction.net/s/1503928/50/)

B, Authors cannot tolerate constructive criticism.

I always tried to be a good example in this regard but unfortunately this is very true. I was fortunate enough to avoid flames for my constructive reviews and I take my hat off for all the authors I have bothered with my less pleasant comments.

C, Or worse (?) they simply ignore constructive criticism.

Meaning that the readers have to tolerate the same typos etc in each update.

I gave my essay the title “A conflict of interests” because I came to the conclusion that I belong to a minority of fanfic readers.

Authors can be divided into a group of people (group A) who try to write canon quality fics (or better!), who respect their authors enough to use a beta reader and MS WORD. There are also people who do not attempt to write at such high quality but pull it off nevertheless.
The better fics of these authors could be published as a novel. Most of their fics fall into a grey area, meaning that they are good stories but they lack either the original idea or character development to be placed higher.

The other group consists of people (group B) who so to speak recognised their boundaries or admittedly are letting of steam here and are happy to post nice fluff, lemon, angst etc. stories.
Some of these fics belong to the abovementioned grey area, some belong to the every day romance quality.

Since I risk my final exams with writing this essay I’ll come straight to the actual point of my essay.

At age 16 I showed some of my writings to a Literature teacher. She told me bluntly with no sugar-coating that I suck at writing (poems) and should read and read and read more and that I’ll probably never be a good poet. What did I do? I stopped writing for 6 years and fortunately, because it is my hobby, read, read and read.

Fanfiction net and this board are places where you publish your works in public. I always tried to encourage teenage writers, because I believe that if I had read and written stories Foretold Love would be twice the story it is today.

And herein lies the conflict of interests. That we have authors who post because they write stories on an urge (not only teenagers, but authors of every age) and we have authors who are professional authors (or are not but they should be) and behave professionally.

As a majority, another group has evolved from the group which writes stories to let off steam, and they are not interested in constructive criticism (not even in requests for a beta or MS WORD usage).

The number of registered members on this board is over 300. A growing number of them are not native speakers (myself included). However, with the growing number of stories people do not only feel the need to post half-ready plot bunnies, they also feel excused from trying to obtain a beta reader and post beta read stories.

This is a trend I strongly disagree with. With over 300 members I am sure that there are native speakers who would be glad to be of help. It goes without saying that I as a foreigner will never write with the eloquence of a native speaker. This is not about sentence structure or vocabulary. My complaint is about missing half words and sentences and in general, the skyrocketing number of stories that are clearly written when the author opened her ffnet account and had a peaceful 5 minutes.

I accept that not everyone wants to improve as a fanfic writer. But with posting such low grammar quality stories you actually admit that you do not care about your readers one bit. And with posting “Loved it, update soon!” like reviews you admit that you do not care about said story one bit either…except for the promised fluff in the next chapter maybe.

The ultimate conflict of interests arises in the matter of reviews. Every author wants to receive an eloquent, detailed description of his or her efforts. They hold their breath to see whether someone comments on the jokes and puns they used, on cliffhangers, on character development, on the flow of the story etc.

However, we have a thread devoted to the art of reviewing because many fans stated publicly that they have no idea how to review. And right they were. Because a full, well-rounded review takes about half the time the author spent on typing (not writing or planning!) the story.

Everyone who has not read that thread should do so. Here is the link:http://admmfics.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=writing&action=display&thread=1132168130

Another common excuse is that readers apparently do not have the time to review. This is not true. Of course they have the time for it, they just spend it on reading new stories. This also means that they are quite simply not interested enough in reading an update if they do not review (your story or mine).

And why are they not interested in reading more? Because since just about everyone who is old and clever enough to write a 500 word story writes one there are still many stories to read.

This leaves the fandom with many active stories and authors belonging to group B and the authors of group A either in exile, or sulking or posting at such long intervals that nobody cares about them anymore. The exceptions keep the fandom going.

The statement that real authors do not write for reviews is undoubtedly true. It is their profession to write. But we should not forget that they get a great number of reviews in newspapers after publishing and via fanmail.

When I started to read fanfics I believed that the likes of mascaret and Sirabella were authors who wrote professionally and graced the fandom with fics in their free time. In most cases I was wrong although there are professional writers among our numbers. Why would someone who is certain of her own talents post a story to a group of strangers when she could ask her friends to read it? (besides the obvious that ADMM fans are considered to be mad) Authors are not self-conceited people who should be given reviews as a present. Most of them struggle with their writing and work long and hard to post fics with a proper plot and language (at least before the current tendency they did).

Since I have an ffnet account I reviewed every fic I have read and made an effort to catch up on the ones that I read before creating the account.

Since EVERYONE likes to receive reviews (raise your hands if you do not), I suggest the following compromise:

1. Try to review every fic you want to see updated. (I was going to say try to review every fic that you read but you’d have me dragged off to a happy home in no time)
2. Stop thinking of reviews as a popularity contest. They are means of helping the author to improve per definition, nothing more or less.
3. People posting on a public page such as this board and ffnet and co should realise the full meaning of public opinion and the responsibility they carry. If someone does not wish to receive constructive criticism or comments on grammar mistakes should say so in an Author’s Note or in their profile. ADMM fans are nice, we will understand.
4. Try to submit honest, well-rounded reviews.
5. Try to imagine that you are the author of the story when you ponder whether you review or not. It will do wonders.
6. Are you tired of repeating “update soon”, “good job”, or “amazing”? Even posting a commonplace 500-word story takes longer than that. And…are you ever tired of HEARING that you are amazing and brilliant? Neither is everyone else.

I think I was wrong on at least one count. The ultimate conflict of interests is that there are (aspiring) authors and a huge number of people who are not readers but hunters for more and more ADMM stories. These hunters are interested in more and more ADMM stories and they tend not to review. Aspiring authors on the other hand expect advice, criticism (even praise), which they hardly ever get. But it does not matter for hunters as long as the next wave of authors arrives with more stories.

Who cares enough to try to contact mascaret as long as 20 fics per week are posted in which Albus and Minerva kiss/make love etc.? And the fact that she is at least as good a writer as JKR is, if not better? Who cares as long as the 20+ fics per week are delivered?

As for my own stories, I probably own my readers an explanation before and if I disappear.

I’m on a sabbatical because in less than 10 days I will start to take my final exams at Law School. Ask a friend/relative who did that and you know why I am inactive. No amount of reviews can change that. Neither the fact that I will hardly have time for fanfics if I start my first job after graduation. It takes months to fit in at a workplace.

I’m extremely grateful for the support that Foretold Love got more than words can say. I would not risk my final exams and uni degree if I wasn’t.

My bitter posts were due to the fact that only 3 people said anything in any way before I threatened to discontinue the fic (Fulfilment).

If you think that I post Fulfilment because I have“the typical urge of the authors” you are wrong. For heaven’s sake I will never ever publish a book in my fifth language! I have already improved my language skills beyond my greatest expectations (maybe not beyond yours, but well beyond mine). If only 3 people are interested in an update (with a board membership of 300 etc.) without me threatening to discontinue the fic I really should email them the update and work on my book in my first language in my free time. Or ignore those three people altogether (sorry, guys!).

As an aspiring English Lit. student (that I also owe to this fandom and my betas) I’m slightly concerned as well, that with the exception of two people nobody commented on my progress (or lack there of) concerning the use of the English language and rhythm and flow. It’s hard to decide whether my attempt at better rhythm and flow utterly failed or not.

I’d be glad if native speakers pm-d me and suggest books that I should read (preferably of literary value). I'm grateful for the help of those who already did.

Since I plan to attempt to write professionally in my first language, in my case well rounded reviews matter less as I write completely differently in English than I do in my first language. I’m at least 5 years behind in style…owing to the fact that I still lack the knowledge of words I need for writing in my first language style.

I will go back to my sabbatical and try to pass my exams. I will post and update whenever I feel like that and when I have the time, which is the most I can promise for my readers.

I tried to avoid using actual pennames unless it was for praise or a harmless example.

Will this post stir debate? Or cause a change? I doubt it. Most likely I will be banned from the board, which I am sorry for in advance. However, I tried to voice my opinion without deliberately hurting anyone. My suggestion of reviewing methods would benefit all kind of authors (group A,B,C and so on). At least think about my suggestion. At the latest, when you as an author get the next “Good job. Update soon!” review that you hoped to be a well-rounded analysis. Most of us are both readers and writers. If you do not give something you will not get anything in exchange. Someone has to start.

foci

PS: You most likely think if you read this far that I do take this too seriously. That was one of my points, that there is a conflict between people who take fanfiction seriously and those who do not. I happen to belong to the loser minority group.
This post makes less sense than I hoped it would (it should be twice as long to do) but it's 3 AM here and I don't think I would have had the time for a polished version in the next days. Peace.

[Rikki]

Hi there,

Well, first of all: Good luck with your finals! ;D Hope that you'll do well.

As I'm in the process of writing my thesis, I haven't really read any fanfiction in ages - and I have to admit that AD/MM isn't really my highest priority at the moment anyway. There's way too much to think about, too much to consider - and too many other good books and movies, to be frank.

I have to admit that I kind of agree on several of the points you mentioned in your post. Spell-checking should be an essential when writing a story which is supposed to be posted. Apart from the fact that it makes it easier to read, the writer will learn from the corrections... and I think it's just general politeness as well. But I think that point has been discussed before.

But there's also something where I don't agree with you. Though I know that there are some more or less professional writers here on the board, I think one shouldn't judge the others by those standards. Not everyone has the urge to become a writer, some people - like myself - just write for fun. Of course, those stories mostly aren't Pulitzer material but then again... do they really have to? We're here to have fun, and I think that's something we shouldn't forget.

As for your mentioning of people like Nerweniel not updating on her stories... sorry but don't you contradict yourself there? I mean, writing just for the sake of it and without a plotbunny isn't really good, is it? And, in Lies' case, she has more than enough on her plate at the moment as it is, and I think there are things which are more important than updating some story, right?

Just my two cents on the whole thing. Hope you won't leave at all.

Love, Rikki

[Sensiblyquirky]

I agree with your point on spell-check, but I believe that has been exhausted.

My main point of contention regards reviewers' responsiblity to let authors who are leaving know that they wish them to stay. I do not think it is the reader's responsibility to motivate an author to write, and nor do I believe that a reader can truely motivate in that way. A reader can submit a review begging the author to stay and finish a particular piece, but that sort of entreaty is only going to work for so long. In the dead of the night when you are facing finals, jobs, family obligations, and etc...a faceless name, which is often made up, will not convince you to put your other work aside and keep writing. That sort of motivation must either come from within, or become self-enforcing. Further if as an author you feel forced to give updates to reviewers I'm not certain the work would be as good a quality, as if you had the time and wanted to write disregarding reviewers. Unlike a professional writer we are not getting paid for this writing, which might alter the above statement, but alas no ad/mm fanfic writer is being paid to write ad/mm fanfic as far as I know.

To your disappointment regarding few reviewers commenting on your grammar: fewer and fewer, including me, are comfortable discussing grammar. Also, whether it is due to your own ability or your beta, I imagine many people who have read your stories did not think English was your fifth language. That is wonderful, and you can assign the credit more than I.

This 'essay' does bring up several interesting discussion points, and I hope others will respond.

Christy

[QuillofMinerva]

Hello All,

I have recently been absent from the board and have struggled to get into AD/MM mode since HBP was published, it ruined the whole AD/MM dream for me (though I think Albus is still very much alive and will do an Aslan in the final book) I do have outstanding stories where updates are needed and also wanted by the faithful reviewers who have read my stuff from the start. I do feel bad that I haven't been updating but it isn't through the lack of trying. I do not think it is up to the readers to try and keep the writer going though reviews can help (I won't deny that).

In an ideal world, I think once writers start work, they should finish it because they are letting people down. However, this isn't an ideal world and sometimes things get in the way. I have a little boy who keeps me on my feet 24/7 and we are currently trying to potty train and add this to my lack of a muse, keeps me away from writing though I am aware people are waiting for me to update.

Many of the writers on the board are not professional but are looking for a creative way to let things out, to share an interest and thoughtful but helpful reviews will be of a great assistance to them. I am guilty of not always mentioning mistakes because I don't want to hurt people's feelings etc but other times I do, it really depends on the amount of time, I have though I will concentrate on giving more constructive reveiws from now on because these can help budding writers.

Clayre xx

[EloquentPhoenix]

I've read it through twice now and I don't think I've grasped everything since some of the things I don't think I've noticed or experienced because I've only belonged here for a short (but happy) time. And I still can't even start with the things I meant to say as I read through so I expect this will be a choppy reply that doesn't say what I mean well but I'm going to try.

I don't know what it was like back at the start of this board, back when there were less 'weird' AD/MM shippers. All I can say with reviews is I'm torn between two things. People do review, authors do at least I think, because no one who has ever written a story could ever not appreciate every review, even if the reader merely took the time to say they didn't like it at all. And it is these authors that know how thier time writing a review is worth so much. And then I agree with you on some respects, the difference between views and reviews is extreme. And disheartening, at least it is for me. There are hunters, yes, but the reviewers are still here too, we are still here. I try to review all that I read, though I have thus far refrained from bringing back old stories to the tops of boards. It might seem selfish and pointless but it is not, it takes light away from new stories and pushes them slowly backwards which in turn is also unfair. I digress. My point is, they are not always ignored. Although I agree with what you're saying about story hunters and non reviewers. People still do review. One review from any of the writers I admire saying they enjoyed my story is worth such a lot to me.

Futhering talking about reviews. I agree with what you said about constructive criticism, helping with grammar etc and everything you suggested. But it is hard. I've written constructive criticism and not posted it but it's hard to post when you don't know how people will take it. It can sting. But in essentials I agree and I'm going to try it from now on. Your essay has opened my eyes to say the least.

'... the centre of scribblings of just about everyone'

I'll agree with you there somewhat, but I don't think it is a bad thing at all. I'd fall into one of the people not aspiring to be an author. I'm not cut out for it and I know it, and it's the path I see for myself, I lack the discipline and in some ways the motivation. I personally write as creative output. And I don't think it makes it a bad thing. I'm motivated to write by a different cause but I still do, and I still hope one day I might be good enough to write as good as some of the fanfiction writers who today stand, in my eyes, above the rest. Which thankfully leads me nicely to my point abut people leaving AD/MM behind (thankfully as I am afraid this is awfully pieced together as I am trying to keep in my head everything I want to say and I've never been cut out for writing long pieces of opinion and discussion this way). Anyway about leaving authors. I've never come across it much before myself (in all honesty). But your point about respecting authors' descisions to leave. I don't think it is a bad thing, because every author deserves that respect. But since you leaving is the first time I've come across it myself I do need to say this. You've made up your mind, and finals will always be more important, real life will always get in the way. Just come back one day, if only a passing fly through to see that we're still here. Or even better still, don't go, but it seems to me you've made up your mind and I think it's right to respect that. And whilst I'm on the point, the very best of luck in your finals.

And more still (sorry I am going on) still about reviews I think and the sheer amount of stories. There are still authors here who's stories get lots of reads and reviews. People do still care about the quality, I think, more than 20 new stories a week. That's why authors stand out as some of the best, well they do to me (and I'm not naming names for fear of missing people off but you are one of them foci and I will forever remember Foretold Love as one of the best of all time) and that's why their stories get many reviews showing the quality is still cared about. As examples (because I can't explain properly) of what I mean I would say Hogwarts Duo's One Dance At A Time or Sensiblyquirky's When The Leaves Change. There may be hunters but there are still those who recognise quality and those who stil review.

'It goes without saying that I as a foreigner will never write with the eloquence of a native speaker.'

I disagree. Although it can matter and can be easy to see... If I did not know english was your fifth language I would never have guessed it.

Anyway I think in a very roundabout way I've tried to say... something of worth and tried to express myself properly. Like I said, you've opened my eyes with some points and I'm going to make a lot more effort with constructive criticism etc with my reviews. I'd say you've stirred a debate already, and you've caused I change for me. Don't underestimate the powerfulness of losing one of the best AD/MM fanfiction writers and your parting essay. And as a parting point, do come back foci, please. I know I haven't read fulfillment and now I remember why. HBP comliant, I was still at that point where I just couldn't. I am going to read it now I have remembered that I promised to myself one day I would. So do come back.

I hope some of that made any sense. And I know it's probably repetitive but I often find just writing it without editing means I truly express what I mean.

[foci]

Dear everyone,

I'd like to summarize my incoherent ramblings in a few clear sentences, adding some new thoughts to the debate.

1. I think that the ADMM fandom is agonising, is dying. Albus is dead, most people feel it difficult to write stories etc.

2. There has not been an original idea since post HBP Albus death fics. It's not anybody's fault. It's the nature of things that they get exhausted.

3. Consequently people who write use recycled storylines or they do not write anymore...consequence...quality is declining.

4. Please use spell checks and betas for heaven's sake. You actually agree to this by posting either here or on ffnet.

5. When I read my first fanfic 10 years ago only aspiring writers were writing. I'm not responsible for the board or ffnet, if the powers to be think it is fine that we have stories that belong to one's personal diary since they are clearly an attempt at letting out of the shock of one's system that's fine. I've enjoyed a huge number of fics written by people who read for fun, including Rikki's and think that there is a difference between posting for fun and letting off the steam.

6. I think I am right in saying that in fandom that once had few members reviews became a subject of a popularity contest. Resulting in friends reviewing each other's fic endlessly and reviewing otherwise for unfathomable reasons. Again, in my vocabulary, review is a help I give to a fellow writer to improve. I accepted that people writing for fun do not want such reviews, I only commented on grammar mistakes and tried to be positive about the rest unless it was truly abysmal. But what do I say to those diary like entries?

7. Unfortunately, I seem to be unable to describe what my main problem is. However, I can explain what I have done today and will do in the future which I hope will shed some light on my thoughts. Today I deleted all of my fics from all public webpages to show that I do not care about the number of reviews anymore (yep, things changed, even between my last post and today). Since one of the best ADMM writers - rogueinker - put my story Fulfilment on her recommended fic list on her webpage I left that one intact because I feel I owe this to her. (if you have complaints I will delete that too, just say so)
When my exams are over I plan to create a homepage. I'm interested in literature, writing and quality fanfics. I cannot help it. I will post my stories again on that page, I did not delete them because I want to punish someone or felt hurt. I'm sorry for the inconvenience if anyone was mid-story. My homepage will NOT have a review area but plenty of space to discuss books, fics, HP, ADMM, and writing. If you are interested in either of these things you are hereby invited to join it (of course it has no address yet). I am interested in discussing what I read and my own stories in depth. I feel I do not have the opportunity for this either on ffnet or here in the board anymore.

8. Like I said, I think ADMM fandom is dying. But I wanted to point out that some truly great writers are in exile because people are either lazy to comment or jealous for the number of reviews they had got. Again, it is the author's problem. Readers are obviously content with their absence if they do not comment. I'd like to point out that mascaret left because on some occasions no one commented on her story, which is by far the best admm story online. Commented. Not asked her to update but commented. People had no opinion of it and others stopped commenting because they thought it was too long and too difficult to understand them. Since mascaret said that future updates would be much shorter I thought some who were alienated by the length of the chapters would be delighted by the news.
Also, I may be wrong since I've never been on the other side for years but one of the main differences between aspiring writers and writers writing for fun seems to be the need to discuss their stories. Discuss and not to receive tons of update soon reviews. Sure, authors writing for fun are ready to discuss their story, but aspiring authors are or should be ready to discuss their own skills.

9. I think that if people actually cared about the stories (review properly) everyone would be happier. Authors writing for fun would get more posts urging them to go on and pointing out favourite lines. Aspiring writers would get helpful advice. If people actually cared about anything else than getting their share of story. If they reviewed in the truest sense of the word. Again, a conflict of interest if nobody is interested in reading better stories or help their fellow aspiring authors. That's why I will start my own homepage. As for my main wip Fulfilment, I only wanted to discuss my ideas with my readers. I would gladly swap all my "update soon!" reviews for one reader who is interested in discussing the grammar and plot ideas I used.
Of course, chances are that people do not discuss either of these things with me because we do not share the same interest or they think my stories are not worth it. Like I said, I take this seriously...and it truly is my problem and should not be yours. I think this is an elegant compromise for my problem.

I can assure you, I won't be back here to complain if nobody will join my homepage. That would be a clear sign of what people think. Like I said I have a lot more to focus on in real life. Do not worry about me (save for my exams, heck, I'm so afraid!).

Since I was only able to delete my own posts I would like to ask someone who has the power to do it to close the threads here for Foretold Love, Fulfilment and Of thing yet to come. Thanks.

We will see in a couple of months how dead this fandom is then.

I only had the time to read Rikki's post so I will react to that. If properly written this essay would have been 80 pages long in MS word. Under the circumstances it consists of 8 pages. It is full of hints at problems and complaints and tendencies. Feel free to clarify or new points to the debate.
Of course, on the one hand I meant to say that like in my case, there is no use in asking Lies for a review now. However, I also reacted in the same sentence to the "I do not know what to say in a review" chorus and meant to suggest that when entrance exams are over and they want an update they should tell Lies that they know she is busy with the uni but wait for her return nevertheless (which should occur when she has a plot bunny, naturally). I have no idea how many reviews she got, I picked her because she was the only one I knew of the top of my head was on sabbatical for a reason and not because she was sulking.

Since a debate has started I hope it will go on.

foci

Btw I changed my penname on ffnet and will try to change here too to illiterate ghost. I always felt bad about using a name that belonged to someone else, despite having a late permission.

[Regina]

Hi

I am not a member but I do often stumbled across this page and read the stories.

I actually think that there are some very talented writers on the board, though I admit they are the old school ones (the ones who have been around from the start). I have nothing against the newer writers because their stories are fun to read and they need time to grow and develop.

I think it is wrong for Foci to say the ship is dying because I would like to point out other ships from other books, films etc are still thriving today despite the programmes have been cancelled etc. You could say that the PICARD/CRUSHER ship was over because in the last episodes, it was said that they divorced. The ship is kept alive by loyal fans and the same goes for Minerva and Albus. I also think that there are writers who are writing new AD/MM stories that haven't been tackled before.

[foci]

I was dragged off from the computer by my family last night…they were of the opinion I should be studying for my exams.

Anyhow, having read the rest of the comments

I agree with Christy (Sensiblyquirky) that if an author is not a fan anymore you can’t help that. I used Jestana and now in the modified version Sirabella to point this out (although she is not the best example since she said she would finish When We’ve Been There Ten Thousand Years when she feels like it but she does write actively in other fandoms).

The rest of the comments and points raised by Rikki, Eloquent Phoenix, Quill of Minerva and Christy all state the same: they do not know what to say in a review…because the author might only wish to receive positive comments.

I think this whole review problem could be solved. Like I said, author not wishing to receive constructive criticism should say so in their profile or in the author’s notes here on the board.
Maybe one of the Headmistresses could send a pm to everyone saying that since most (?) members feel uncomfortable about reviewing for the fear of receiving flames, people should state whether they want constructive criticism or not.

I still feel that there is a contradiction between someone choosing to make her writings public and not wanting to have honest comments…why post the story then?

And there is an even bigger contradiction between people requesting their right to “let the steam off” and post unbetaread while the very same people really have no idea how to write a review. I’d like to emphasise that Rikki and co said that their problem was that they do not know what to say in a review. They know very well how a well-rounded review should look like. They just do not want to receive undeserved flames.

But there are people, and not just a few, who truly do not know how to review. I ask you guys, how do you expect you will write a 500-word fic (I think that is the ffnet minimum but I might be wrong) if you cannot formulate your opinion in 50 or even less words?

Yep, I know that some people are foreigners who barely speak English. But expressing your opinion is far easier than writing a story since in a review you basically submit your first reaction to a story.

As a general advice I suggest to everyone who considers posting a story but has not done so yet not to post before you feel you can review properly.

I think the debate could be expanded if you dared to quote what you agree on with me.
Is the topic of spell check really exhausted? Yes, you can always abandon a story if it is so plagued with mistakes. But is this a way to solve problems? If it does not work you walk away? If you do not care you walk away, I agree…but if we all walk away is there an ADMM community to talk about?

I think that this debate has its roots in the general development of Internet.
Generally, Internet teaches people to not care and walk away if they dislike something. You are a Harry Potter hater? Don’t visit HP supporting sites. Just ignore what you disagree with.

Internet is bound to be of help, to serve you and you should use it for your own means.
These are the standard rules for individual Internet users.

Are we an ADMM community or are we not? It is my understanding that members are responsible for a community. If this community has been dissolved…let me know. I will shut up.

I think that everybody is entitled to her own opinion. Naturally, everyone has a different background, experiences etc….remember the anecdote I began my essay with? I expect the majority of the board to disagree with my comments, actually.

I promised my family not to come back here anymore before my first exam. Please kick me out for my own sake if I do.

illiterate ghost

PS: Regina, please point me out the original ideas you think you have found, I'd love to read those stories!

And I ask the Headmistresses to please delete my fic threads...

[tanja]

I read it now, and I have to admit something:

It´s really "depressing" to a certain point. Maybe I really get it completely wrong, but to me it sounds like "not brilliant, gifted writers shouldn´t post at all for it´s not good enough or worth being posted"... I mean, some really do write for fun and not a professional aspect. I can only speak for myself, and I had fun writing, although it´s far from brilliant, and I´m glad to be corrected or informed about mistakes, and I guess some others are as well.
Of course there´s nothing about grammer or spell checking, but not everyone´s perfect, so why should one be so very disapointed?

And another thing I don´t really understand is, why you´re wasting that "useful" time which could be spent learning (good luck for the exams at this point ) when it won´t really change anything, but perhaps even discourage some people maybe? Please don´t get me wrong, but I just can´t understand that...Taking the time to tell in 80 pages, or more, what I don´t like and have recognized when I have no time to write etc.? To me that´s somehow contradictorily.
And what exactely can one say to certain brilliant stories, written by even more brilliant authors ? Sometime you simply can´t say more than that it´s really a fantastic job that they´ve done...

anyway: again good luck for those important exams, and I hope you´ll come back afterwards, as I am sure "we" will still be existing for some time longer

[Rikki]

Well said, Tanja. My point exactly. ;D

[nemi]

I'm sorry you're leaving. You'll be missed. I agree and I disagree with some of your points .. I don't mean to ramble but this is what I think-

1. I think that the ADMM fandom is agonising, is dying. Albus is dead, most people feel it difficult to write stories etc.
I have to disagree with that. I see where you're coming from but personally I thought that the fact that Albus died spurred people on. Loyal fans wrote more stories concerning a) what they would have preferred to happen, b) the aftermath, c) what happened before Albus left, d) what could happen in the future, he came back, etc. Just because a character dies officially doesn't mean that he/she cannot live on in the heart of the fans. Some people may find it hard to write stories and that is understandable but with time people come to terms with things and a lot of the time people still write on.

2. There has not been an original idea since post HBP Albus death fics. It's not anybody's fault. It's the nature of things that they get exhausted.
I don't agree. I read old fics and new fics and I find most of the fics I read very good. Perhaps it is just a matter of how hard you look? There are more stories now than there were when HP had just graced the world but that doesn't mean that they're all about the same thing.

3. Consequently people who write use recycled storylines or they do not write anymore...consequence...quality is declining.
Quality isn't necessarily declining. There are classic storylines that everyone is entitled to use. Everyone has their own style and there are always new takes on things.

4. Please use spell checks and betas for heaven's sake. You actually agree to this by posting either here or on ffnet.
I agree people should use a spellcheck but that's been said. I confess I don't have a beta-reader but I check my spelling and grammar and proof-read my work and take notice when people say I have written something wrong. Some stories *do* have bad spelling or grammar but everyone is entitled to try and improve and shouldn't be flamed, just helped. They should not under any circumstances be discouraged from posting. Everyone's entitled to post and be helped.

5. When I read my first fanfic 10 years ago only aspiring writers were writing. I'm not responsible for the board or ffnet, if the powers to be think it is fine that we have stories that belong to one's personal diary since they are clearly an attempt at letting out of the shock of one's system that's fine. I've enjoyed a huge number of fics written by people who read for fun, including Rikki's and think that there is a difference between posting for fun and letting off the steam.
Everyone who writes is an aspiring writer in one way or another.

6. I think I am right in saying that in fandom that once had few members reviews became a subject of a popularity contest. Resulting in friends reviewing each other's fic endlessly and reviewing otherwise for unfathomable reasons. Again, in my vocabulary, review is a help I give to a fellow writer to improve. I accepted that people writing for fun do not want such reviews, I only commented on grammar mistakes and tried to be positive about the rest unless it was truly abysmal. But what do I say to those diary like entries?
I don't see reviews as a popularity contest. Granted, some stories have more reviews than others. But personally I don't think amount of reviews is the same as popularity. I don't consider "popular" people as the people that have the most friends. If a story is "popular" I think it means people like it, the number of those people doesn't matter.
You say people review for unfathomable reasons: even if people don't analyse the stories they read, they let the authors know they've read them and that's a friendly gesture. I agree it is good to help writers improve.
Concerning the diarylike entries- I haven't come across one of these but it sounds like you are describing people writing about how they see things. People are allowed a rant. Perhaps you could comment on the points raised?
You say people write as though it is their personal diary; that implies they are writing for themselves. I read an interview with Philip Pullman recently, a writer whose work I greatly admire, and he said you should write as you please. Write what you want and not what you think others want. He said: "Before the first Harry Potter book came out, how many people demanded a book about Harry Potter?" No one did! I encourage people to write what they want to write. I understand that people shouldn't write for the number of reviews but people can also post what they want to post, be it a "personal diary" or not, it's what they want to do.

7. Unfortunately, I seem to be unable to describe what my main problem is. However, I can explain what I have done today and will do in the future which I hope will shed some light on my thoughts. Today I deleted all of my fics from all public webpages to show that I do not care about the number of reviews anymore (yep, things changed, even between my last post and today). Since one of the best ADMM writers - rogueinker - put my story Fulfilment on her recommended fic list on her webpage I left that one intact because I feel I owe this to her. (if you have complaints I will delete that too, just say so)
When my exams are over I plan to create a homepage. I'm interested in literature, writing and quality fanfics. I cannot help it. I will post my stories again on that page, I did not delete them because I want to punish someone or felt hurt. I'm sorry for the inconvenience if anyone was mid-story. My homepage will NOT have a review area but plenty of space to discuss books, fics, HP, ADMM, and writing. If you are interested in either of these things you are hereby invited to join it (of course it has no address yet). I am interested in discussing what I read and my own stories in depth. I feel I do not have the opportunity for this either on ffnet or here in the board anymore.
I understand that this is what you wanted to do but I disagree with some of your explanations. I don't think that deleting your fic is expressing that you don't care about the number of reviews. I don't care about the reviews my fics get; I post as I please and if I delete a fic it's because I don't like it, not because it has too few or too many reviews. I write when and what I want and I appreciate and read every review I receive, no matter how many there are. I think your deleting your fic expresses that you don't *want* people to review, whatever the reason for this is. Putting something in public isn't necessarily inviting reviews; it's allowing people to read it.
And I think that one of this board's purposes is discussing your writing. You can invite people to comment on it, PM you and tell you what they think, discuss your views with them, etc. Start up a thread discussing writing techniques? You can do that. You can interact with your readers. I also think that people can do that to an extent on ff.net, I have interacted with my readers through author notes, we have discussed the points in the story, I have explained things people don't understand, people have made suggestions. All you need to do is ask. I emboldened in an author note in my story Don't Ask the text "if anyone has suggestions for an Animagus form for Hermione please let me know" and people did so! People may have done that anyway but I think you should just invite people to discuss and suggest.

8. Like I said, I think ADMM fandom is dying. But I wanted to point out that some truly great writers are in exile because people are either lazy to comment or jealous for the number of reviews they had got. Again, it is the author's problem. Readers are obviously content with their absence if they do not comment. I'd like to point out that mascaret left because on some occasions no one commented on her story, which is by far the best admm story online. Commented. Not asked her to update but commented. People had no opinion of it and others stopped commenting because they thought it was too long and too difficult to understand them. Since mascaret said that future updates would be much shorter I thought some who were alienated by the length of the chapters would be delighted by the news.
Also, I may be wrong since I've never been on the other side for years but one of the main differences between aspiring writers and writers writing for fun seems to be the need to discuss their stories. Discuss and not to receive tons of update soon reviews. Sure, authors writing for fun are ready to discuss their story, but aspiring authors are or should be ready to discuss their own skills.
I don't think people should consider themselves or others in exile because of the lack of comments. An example of something I really admired was not in this fandom but an example nonetheless. I read an absolutely wonderful story on ff.net based on the anime Last Exile. It had about 12 chapters and spanned over quite a long time and had four reviews, that had been left quite a time apart. The author didn't consider herself in exile, she carried on writing. She mentioned that she was writing because she wanted to and that she also acknowledged the fact that her story had quite a high number of *views*. Not reviews, just views. The story was being read and not necessarily commented on- lack of comment doesn't mean exile.
While I haven't actually known someone to be jealous of someone I don't think people should be jealous at all, I agree with you there. And the long chapter thing- people should make their chapters as long as they please. People could well have been delighted by the news. Again, lack of comment doesn't mean exile.

9. I think that if people actually cared about the stories (review properly) everyone would be happier. Authors writing for fun would get more posts urging them to go on and pointing out favourite lines. Aspiring writers would get helpful advice. If people actually cared about anything else than getting their share of story. If they reviewed in the truest sense of the word. Again, a conflict of interest if nobody is interested in reading better stories or help their fellow aspiring authors. That's why I will start my own homepage. As for my main wip Fulfilment, I only wanted to discuss my ideas with my readers. I would gladly swap all my "update soon!" reviews for one reader who is interested in discussing the grammar and plot ideas I used.
Of course, chances are that people do not discuss either of these things with me because we do not share the same interest or they think my stories are not worth it. Like I said, I take this seriously...and it truly is my problem and should not be yours. I think this is an elegant compromise for my problem.
Again, just ask. In my experience if I have asked for something in a review people have reviewed with what I asked for. People probably do think your stories are worth it. I haven't actually read all of either Foretold Love or Fulfilment, although I have read a lot, and so I apologise that I can't fully comment. But I do think that what I read of both of them was very good and if you asked you would probably find people willing to discuss them. I'm also sorry I didn't review - I read them on ff.net and I tend to review more here. What you've said has really encouraged me to review more.
If you really believe it isn't anyone's problem then perhaps just read some English books and use examples from them. I am a native speaker of the English language and I read books and improve my writing based on the way they are written. I am also learning to speak French and purchased PoA in French to help me with that. For grammar, there are many stories you can try and I'm sure lots of the authors I list now have already been recommended to you but I'll say them anyway-
Emily Bronte (Wuthering Heights); Charlotte Bronte (Jane Eyre); JRR Tolkien (Lord of the Rings); Jane Austen (Pride and Prejudice et al); Charles Dickens (David Copperfield, anything really); Philip Pullman (His Dark Materials trilogy & Sally Lockhart quartet); Muriel Spark (The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie); Robin McKinley (Beauty & Spindle's End); Garth Nix (Abhorsen trilogy, also known as Old Kingdom trilogy); Arthur Conan Doyle (Sherlock Holmes); Arthur Golden (Memoirs of a Geisha).. I could go on but they're the first that spring to mind- my favourite authors and my favourites of their books. I don't think they're particularly aimed at any audience and the grammar is excellent and helpful.
I think people probably do/did care about your stories and you should just ask them to discuss them. I don't know many of the people on this board extremely well but I think everyone is prepared to discuss stories and be helpful; everyone here is great from my experience.

I can assure you, I won't be back here to complain if nobody will join my homepage. That would be a clear sign of what people think. Like I said I have a lot more to focus on in real life. Do not worry about me (save for my exams, heck, I'm so afraid!).
I wish you the best of luck with your exams and I'm sure you'll do extremely well. Heck, reading your stories I would *never* have guessed English is your *fifth* language. Again, good luck and I'm sure you'll be absolutely fine.

Since I was only able to delete my own posts I would like to ask someone who has the power to do it to close the threads here for Foretold Love, Fulfilment and Of thing yet to come. Thanks.
I think you probably should have left them open, with your posts there. They were excellent.

We will see in a couple of months how dead this fandom is then.
There are many loyal fans on this board and I doubt the fandom will ever truly be dead. I understand that you want to leave and I accept that. But I'm sorry: deleting your fics probably just implies you want to deaden it.

I agree fully with you when you say that you appreciate constructive reviews and I think everyone does. But people are entitled to let authors know they're reading, as well as authors are entitled to write what they like. Yes I think people should review constructively but just ask. I receive both "update soon!" and constructive reviews and I appreciate everything as people have taken the time to let me know they read my story, whether or not they analysed it and that shows that readers do care. Just ask.

You said it's easier to express your opinion in a review than a story... if I want to express an opinion I build it into a story. Stories are people's take on things, their opinions. Reviews are different. In no way am I discouraging people from reviewing- I think people *should* review but I don't necessarily agree that it's harder to express opinion in a story. And some great fics I've read have been drabbles. You say "How do you expect to write a 500 word story?" I really do disagree with that and that's implying people can't submit things below 500 words.

I don't really think you should label people as A, B, C, whatever. *Everyone* is allowed to write in any way they please, it's up to you what you read.

I really did not know English was your fifth language until I read a direct statement saying that. Methinks you should just ask people to discuss your language skills. Open a thread here? FictionAlley? There are plenty of wonderful people everywhere willing to help if asked. That said, reading your 'essay' - if you didn't say in it quite a number of times that you're not English and I didn't know already, I would, quite honestly, find no reason to accuse it of being written of someone non-English.

I also agree with what Tanja said. Sometimes you can't ask more than for an update, and the essay is somewhat discouraging.

To summarise what I've said: people should and are allowed to write what, when, why and how they wish, and about what they like. Everyone has different styles and people aren't necessarily all writing about the same things, that's assumption in a way. All you need to do is ask for discussion, I know for a fact that lots of people on this board are willing to discuss things. Also what you have said has encouraged me to review stories in as much depth as I can. I understand what you are trying to say but I do disagree with a lot of it.

In complete summary, the first being a quote from Garth Nix's website and the second from an interview with Philip Pullman:

'Writing anything is better than not writing something perfect.'

What advice would I give to anyone who wants to write?

Don't listen to any advice, that's what I'd say. Write only what you want to write. Please yourself. YOU are the genius, they're not. Especially don't listen to people (such as publishers) who think that you need to write what readers say they want. Readers don't always know what they want. I don't know what I want to read until I go into a bookshop and look around at the books other people have written, and the books I enjoy reading most are books I would never in a million years have thought of myself. So the only thing you need to do is forget about pleasing other people, and aim to please yourself alone. That way, you'll have a chance of writing something that other people WILL want to read, because it'll take them by surprise. It's also much more fun writing to please yourself.

Again I am sorry to see you leave and I wish you the best of luck with your exams.

-Nemi

[foci]

Thank you everyone for disagreeing with me as politely as you did.
Thanks to everyone who contacted me either via private or public means. Special thanks to rogueinker, whose thoughts helped me realise that I expected to learn from your reviews whether I was cut out to be a writer in my first language, which is of course, complete rubbish. Consequently I will concentrate on my writing skills in my first language and I put back a story I consider to be complete online (Of things yet to come) and another that I finished before my exams. Foretold Love needs a thorough rewriting.

I don't have the time to go into details and react to nemi's excellent response but I still agree with what I said about spell checks and declining reviews and numerous other things. I don't know how much my essay helped to improve things but your reactions certainly helped me personally, for which I'm eternally grateful.

I hope I will have some time for writing fanfiction too... I have the excuse for posting this reply of passing my first exams with reasonably good results...it's still another two months until I'm ready. Thanks to everyone who keeped her fingers crossed for me, it did help!

In the meantime, happy posting!

[emeraldeyes]

Well, I seemed to find this a little late, didn't I. However, I'm not going to let that stop me, as illiterate ghost's parting essay really got me thinking.

I admit that I am one of those people who leaves a "happy" review when I read stories, mostly because I do not want an author to take offense to any criticism, constructive or otherwise. Also, I admit that I do not have a beta reader, never have. Finally, I admit that I'm a little worried that my stories might fall into those "same old" story lines.

On Reviews This essay made me realize basically what a crap job I've done on reviewing in the past, and before I was even through the first part of your essay fully, I had resolved that, if I was to be a better writer and to help those writers around me, I needed to review more fully, setting aside whether or not my insight would be rejected or accepted. I acknowledge the fact that, on some occasions, I've missed the fact that all I've gotten was a pat on the back, even if it gave me that warm, fuzzy feeling, and that some of the few not pleasant reviews made me step back and see if my writing was as terrible as implied. These reviews hit upon everything from the idea being absolutely insane by some who cannot fathom Albus being anything but perfect and the singer of the song said fic was set to. Therefore, I believe that there are really two extremes to reviews: The happy ones, as illiterate ghost mentioned, and the flames that only discourage the writer, mayhap even setting them a few steps backward. Also, there are occasions where the spelling and grammar are so atrocious that I've hit the back button without finishing reading, without reviewing on said horror, if you will permit me the word. I knew that this wasn't right, and yet I did it anyway. Trust me, that will change.

On My Lack of a Beta I have never had a beta, but I do throughly read through my work before posting, using spell check and grammar check. I hesitate to say that there should be exceptions to the "having a beta" concept, but I do not think that because one lacks a beta, one's work isn't readable. I don't rightly know how to go about obtaining a beta, and even if I did, I cannot immediately think of an author on this board who could want to beta my stories. Maybe that's an absence of confidence on my part, or maybe it's an absence of confidence in fellow authors, also my fault.

Same Story Lines I try to stay away from this, and in my mind, I have, but my mind isn't like yours. Yes, maybe occasionally I stumble over a plot I've read before, only using different.. Well.. Anything, basically! Some of my stabs at fics are scribbled off, but only if I'm in a mood, during which, I believe I write my best. One of my stories, as I spoke of above, was so "out there" it was flamed. It might be my fault for taking such criticism to heart, but what else am I to do when all I received otherwise were, "Good job, Very Nice." etc? I think that lack of "original" story lines are due to a) less brilliancy than some of the masters of fiction possess b) fear of said original plot being discarded as rubbish or c) lack of originality all together. The last is what worries me the most; however, I don't feel this fear as deeply as you seem to. I've read quite a few very creative plots, and most are well received. Personally, I fear the second of these three evils. Sometimes, yes, my fics may lack that shimmering creativity that the masters' hold, and I recognize that. I feel that it's those fics that I'm most proud of that tend to make up for those "slip ups."

As to some of the greater writers among us leaving.. I've realized that for a while, but in a different way. Sometimes, I would stumble upon a Jestana or a mascret (sp? sigh..) fic, and wonder what happened to them, because I loved their fics, but I always shrugged and figured they had their reasons for discontinuing stories or posting in general. In short, I believe as you do, that there are the jewels of fan fiction, especially ADMM fiction, and lots of shippers recognize that, whether they verbally (typally?) state that or not.

In conclusion, because I'm off for bed soon, I'm sorry that I, for one, have been so remiss in my fandomness, I guess is the word. Thank you for writing this essay; it really got me thinking. I've realized things I can change now to help the writers around me, and I've realized things about my own fics that I can stop now before I fall into a rut. All in all, this was an eye-opening experience, and I value the time you put into this work, making me think about my posting and reviewing habits.

As a side note? Good luck on exams, etc, and you shall be missed. I'm glad of your departure for one reason, and that is the words you've typed above. I value you as a writer, not just for your ADMM fics that made me smile, but for this piece here. I hope to rise above whatever level I'm at now, as I hope one day to become a writer of at least nonfiction, and..

If you hadn't told me, I'd have never believed English was your fifth language, as you seem to type and convey thoughts and points through it as I, a native, cannot.

Thank you, again.

Kate

[Sensiblyquirky]

I think it is important to remember something in regard to this entire thread. There are said to be only six plots in all of literature. Most stories on this board have the same basic plotline: minerva...albus...get together as a couple. That is a plotline, the basic one, and the majority of the stories consist of that; therefore yes most stories have the same basic plot, so do the majority of books, short stories, fanfics, etc.. that have ever been written. How is where we deviate, and though some hows can be the same if the writing style is different then you are not reading the same story twice.

As to true originality I think it is incorrect to claim no new 'how' has been written since HBP death fics. General statements like that rarely wash.