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Post by mugglemin on Mar 7, 2005 19:08:35 GMT -5
I have a question: How "romantic" does a lemon have to be to remain a "lemon"? And when does it just become porn?
Is this just the same old question that Art Historians ask about art and porn? Or do I need a clearer definition of "lemon".
Just wondering. I've got no fluff bunnies or anything, but it did just occour to me...
answers on a postcard please...
mugs.x
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Post by Taylor on Mar 7, 2005 19:16:41 GMT -5
Oh, that is an easy one!
Lemons have sex, Romance has love.
You dont have to have lemons to have romance, and not all romance is lemons.
If you have them gazing deeply into eachother eyes and holding hands, and feelings for eachother that is romance, if you have them bouncing like plot bunnys erm. thats a lemon.
odd, that something that I one thought of as - well, a car that is a lemon isn't any good...
Taylor
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Post by Karlynne on Mar 7, 2005 19:44:04 GMT -5
I have struggled with this a lot lately and have been trying to write more romance in order to improve the lemons I write if that makes sense to you. I want romance in lemons and not just 'activities'. I am probably in the minority but I like the characters to have intimate conversations as well.
My own interpretation of porn is all activity with plotless dialogue, if any, and a healthy dose of vulgarity. Others may disagree.
I would be interested in knowing where the dividing line is myself. I really wouldn't want to offend anyone without warning.
Karlie
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Post by Kamdra on Mar 8, 2005 1:00:28 GMT -5
I don't have a definition for lemon or even porn but if it makes me grimace or want to gag I consider it porn. I don't think a lemon has to have romance but I like an intimate setting for the characters along with what I perceive to be an accurate window into their characters, not just a graphic attack on my imagination. Kammie
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Post by mugglemin on Mar 8, 2005 14:15:35 GMT -5
Yeah...Karlynne and Kamdra seem to have hit the nail on the head, but I think Taylor is missing my question. I'm not really after a definition of a lemon, more asking about the thin line between graphic lemons and actual porn. Of course, it all depends on our own individual definitions of both, but I was reading someones lemon the other day and it kind of bordered on my definition of porn. And for that reason, I didn't enjoy it so much. I don't believe in censorship, but I was starting to think there might be a fic category called "beyond lemon" required. So what I'm saying is...where should we draw the line on lemon content?
(This is a purely hypothetical querey, I'm not offended by anything anyone has posted, nor am I complaining/suggesting we get new rules. Just wondering, that's all...)
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Post by Taylor on Mar 8, 2005 19:40:35 GMT -5
I don't know what the definition of obsenity is but I will know it when I see it.
Someone said that and it makes sense.
Now, in my life, I have read alot, some good, some bad. and I agree, some of the lemons, even here, are a bit much, so much so that I find myself skimming over the parts to try and find the story.
and I understood your question, and I just simplified it. You don't have to have sex to have romance.
and the difference between porn, and a lemon is, if you take the sex out of the lemon you would still have a story.
and maybe that is the reaction people have when they say yuck- because they can't invision that type of aactivity for older people.
so if you use the standard, is there a story, then its a lemon, or is it just sex after the second paragraph, then its porn, and maybe we should make a new fruit for something like that, because while I don't mind reading lemons, I don't have alot of time to invest in reading the bump and grind, if that is all there is to the story.
Taylor
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Post by idealrain on Mar 8, 2005 21:42:36 GMT -5
BTW Taylor's quote is "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced . . . ut I know it when I see it . . . "[1] is by Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart. As a political science major, I only say this: Be Afraid. Be very afraid. wow that was off topic. oh well....
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Post by max on Mar 31, 2005 11:37:59 GMT -5
Well, perhaps it's only my definition, but I think the difference between a lemon and porn simply is: A lemon isn't only about f****ing, but about the feelings shared in this act. A porn is all about sex.
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Post by Catwoman99 on Mar 31, 2005 14:56:23 GMT -5
I have to agree with Max and Taylor. Sex + storyline = lemon. Sex - storyline = porn or, in fanfic terms, PWP (Plot? What plot? or Porn Without Plot). Though I think most people tend to associate lemons with just any fic that includes a sex scene. My only lemon, "The Graduate", I labeled as basically a PWP. More sex than plot. I hope it wasn't my story that offended you. :-) I'll talk it over with Nerweniel about the possibility of adding a PWP board and also about adding a password to the current lemon board. (Or at least making it members only) The only possible problem would be, like you ladies said, where do we draw the line between the two. What type of guidelines would apply to the new board and to the lemon board? Good topic, mugs. - April  |
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Post by Jaya on Mar 31, 2005 15:38:37 GMT -5
Geez... what a difficult topic.... I'd be the first to say that I enjoy reading the lemons... I enjoy the ones with a bit of plot more but it isn't absolutely necessary... still... I tend to draw the line at labeling what I've read on this board as porn... It may seem silly but to me, at least to some extent, it has more to do with just plotline. Emotions are a part of it... If I feel that the couple cares about each other... loves each other... that is different than a rape or gratuitous fling.... Another thing that helps define it for me is word choice... descriptive words, I should say. There are certain words (mainly certain terms for the male and female genitalia) that I don't care for and I will not use them in my writing. Maybe I'm just trying to justify reading racier material (no wait... am nearly 40... don't have to justify anymore...) but I think these things play a part as well.. Jaya  |
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Post by DumbledoresKitten on Apr 1, 2005 1:39:14 GMT -5
definately not an easy topic. . . i think i'd have to agree with the whole no plot=porn, plot (and a point to the story)=lemon.
i'm not sure how you would go about sorting a new board/thread for lemons vs PWP fics. I think its up to the readers to decide what they want to read and if they like it or not. I admit some times I want plot with my lemon other times, not so much.
. . . maybe if the authors just give an authors note classify lemon vs PWP, then readers could quickly decide whether they want to read or not. might save some trouble. Just a thought.
cat
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Post by tayryn on Apr 1, 2005 9:00:39 GMT -5
personally... i think it's a matter of opinion. what one person considers porn isn't necessarily what another person would. each person views things differently.
much like, Jaya... word choice is big factor for me in whether i perceive something as a "lemon" or "porn". there are just certain, rather vulgar words (at least in my opinion) that i will never, and have never used in any of my love scenes.
in the case of reading lemons... again, tis a matter of opinion and taste... you yourself will decide as you're reading it, whether you're enjoying it, or whether or not it's too much for you.
i'm of the firm belief... if it's turning you on, which in a lot of cases is the point and aim of a good lemon, then it's one you've enjoyed, and most likely you're not considering it porn.
and if you're reading it, and your only reaction is to frown, and stop reading it... well, most likely, this is when what you're reading, to you, is porn.
in the end, it all boils down to your own choice, feelings, and opinions...
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Post by Minx on Dec 20, 2005 15:26:14 GMT -5
I wholeheartedly agree Tayryn. My lemons, 'Lemon Chiffon' and 'The Wedding Night' are to be considered fun, clean encounters between two people who love each other very much. I also agree with everything posted about the whole 'sex+plot=lemon' and 'sex-plot=porn'. Personally, I'm glad to see a site that doesn't limit our creativity by censoring the pages. |
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