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Post by The Black-Haired Witch on Sept 10, 2007 17:24:49 GMT -5
Unlike MMADfan, I don't care whether my advice is unsolicited or even unwelcome! I'm here to have fun and lend a helping hand --- whether anyone appreciates it or not. (No, you will not see any wimpy "grins" or emoticons from me. If you don't know whether something is meant seriously, jokingly, or sarcastically, choose what make sense to you. And if you choose to be offended, feel free! Or you may laugh --- it's entirely up to you!) I have no illusions that I can actually tell you how to write fanfiction that others want to read, but I can tell you how to avoid things that will turn off most readers who have more than a teaspoon of functional brain cells! This is my first installment of unsolicited, and possibly unwelcome, advice: God gave us right pinkie fingers for a reason: to hit the enter key! Separating your paragraphs by hitting the enter key twice may keep people reading your story. Or at least they won't be crying out in pain as their eye-strain worsens and your story induces a headache. (For those of you who don't know what "induces" means, we will also have a lesson in using online dictionaries. Fascinating things, online dictionaries. Full of words!)
For those of you without right pinkie fingers: Congratulations! God also gave you a brain, so you have likely already figured out that other appendages can easily be substituted for the pinkie finger!
For those of you who don't believe in God, I assume that you do believe in your pinkie finger or in your brain. Use them! That ends lesson one from the Black-haired Witch! If you've read this far, congratulations! And if you figured out what was meant sarcastically and what was meant seriously without needing any "winks," "grins," or wimpy emoticons, congratulations again! |
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Post by MMADfan on Sept 10, 2007 18:33:03 GMT -5
Interesting advice. Little pinkie! Haha! And I don't mind my name being taken in vain. I will still *grin* when giving unsolicited advice! And I chose to chuckle rather than take offense.
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Post by pinnacle on Sept 10, 2007 21:33:40 GMT -5
I agree with the main content of your 'advice,' but I think it's slightly ridiculous to condemn the use of emoticons or *stuff in asterisks*. The Internet is a completely different medium from physical or printed text, at least where communicating with others is concerned; sometimes you just need that happy face at the end to imply an emotion you can't get across with words... And after all, we're not exactly publishing essays and newspaper columns here, are we?
(...Why is it that I always feel the urge to dive into semantics whenever I debate with others?)
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Post by The Black-Haired Witch on Sept 10, 2007 22:09:54 GMT -5
I agree with the main content of your 'advice,' but I think it's slightly ridiculous to condemn the use of emoticons or *stuff in asterisks*. The Internet is a completely different medium from physical or printed text, at least where communicating with others is concerned; sometimes you just need that happy face at the end to imply an emotion you can't get across with words... And after all, we're not exactly publishing essays and newspaper columns here, are we? (...Why is it that I always feel the urge to dive into semantics whenever I debate with others?)You won't get any argument from the Black-haired Witch on that point. I was merely gently tweaking a friend who is always afraid of giving offense and so every other sentence she writes seems to have an emoticon or something added to it. I was also explaining that I won't use them, but that people should not take everything I write as dead serious simply because I haven't put an emoticon next to it to indicate that they shouldn't. It is simply a little note of caution . . . after all, people who, just for example, take offense at the use of ellipses may be somewhat more sensitive souls than I am accustomed to addressing. Rather than constantly catering to this potential sensitivity as my friend does by constant "grinning" and "winking" in all of my posts, I give one simple warning that I will not be using these cues to interpretation; thus, people are forewarned that they may have to read and interpret my words without resort to such signals. Of course, they may take offense at my use of ellipses . . . or at some of my other statements, but they are free to do so if they wish! It may be, however, much more enjoyable not to take offense, but that is only my opinion. Some people seem to revel in it, and their lives are not complete unless they are offended on a regular basis. If my posts fulfill a need for them, that's fine, too. I could continue with a dissertation on the utility of emoticons and other similar Internet signals --- and there is no doubt that the shorthand provided by emoticons is useful --- but I will merely point out that their use is, in fact, a type of shorthand, and that for generations, human beings corresponded with one another in letters and conveyed a variety of intents and emotional states through words alone. It is important to remember that fact while not dismissing the utility of emoticons when dashing off quick posts on the Internet. Thus, as you see, I do not argue with you, but agree! And now it is time for me to dash off and find a windmill, as you provided me with none to tilt against! |
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Post by pinnacle on Sept 10, 2007 23:01:23 GMT -5
Perhaps semantics would have been the better route for me, then. But I was looking for a fight, to be honest! In fact, I half wish you had been a little more caustic in your response...
Well, not so much anymore.
Anyway, do ignore me and thanks for clearing up my little issue.
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Post by EloquentPhoenix on Sept 11, 2007 2:05:07 GMT -5
You make me laugh, and sarcasm isn't really something to take too seriously. I agree with your advice, though.
However I'm not sure I quite like your dig at Julie Andrews.
It's actually difficult to stop using emoticons, I'm struggling because I use them to convey tone of voice, so to speak, and without them I find that often things are misinterpreted. I think beyond this thread I will continue to use them as ever.
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Post by MinnieQuill on Sept 11, 2007 4:38:50 GMT -5
This is about fanfic, correct? Then why on earth is this post mainly about the pros and cons of using *stuff in asterisks* etc. etc? I thought it was an unspoken rule that they do not belong in a story. Fanfiction is, in no uncertain terms, a writing medium and thus the common rules should apply.
Posts are another matter entirely. In a story you normally have an idea of how a character is speaking or acting (sniggered, guffawed etc. etc.) In a thread no such thing applies and it sometimes does prove useful to use emoticons so the true meaning is put across. Written communication is only 8% of total communication and with something like the internet and forums such as this, you do need to 'bulk up' what you're saying (well, writing in real terms.)
Example:
"You're an idiot."
"You're an idiot." *grin*
The latter at least (hopefully) guarantees no offence will be taken.
I hope that makes sense.
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Post by The Black-Haired Witch on Sept 11, 2007 8:08:04 GMT -5
This is about fanfic, correct? Then why on earth is this post mainly about the pros and cons of using *stuff in asterisks* etc. etc? I thought it was an unspoken rule that they do not belong in a story. Fanfiction is, in no uncertain terms, a writing medium and thus the common rules should apply. Posts are another matter entirely. In a story you normally have an idea of how a character is speaking or acting (sniggered, guffawed etc. etc.) In a thread no such thing applies and it sometimes does prove useful to use emoticons so the true meaning is put across. Written communication is only 8% of total communication and with something like the internet and forums such as this, you do need to 'bulk up' what you're saying (well, writing in real terms.) Example: "You're an idiot." "You're an idiot." *grin* The latter at least (hopefully) guarantees no offence will be taken. I hope that makes sense. The Black-Haired Witch will kindly give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you did not read the entire thread. If you wish to have an answer to your question ("Then why on earth is this post mainly about the pros and cons of using *stuff in asterisks* etc. etc?"), I do suggest you read the entire thread, carefully, for content. Comprehending the entire thread will clarify things. I recommend this with the assumption, of course, that you are one of those who do have more than a teaspoonful of little gray cells and that you do not need to have explained to you what is in front of your nose, but that rather you merely did not read with care and attention the first time. I will be the first to admit it if this assumption is incorrect, however. The Black-Haired Witch does so prefer, however, to respect others' potential for intelligence and other positive qualities, rather than assuming that they are either idiots who cannot read or provocateurs who deliberately misinterpret what they read, and therefore the Black-Haired Witch prefers to treat them as the intelligent adults she assumes they are until she is proven wrong. I must say, however, that the Black-Haired Witch has a very high degree of tolerance for disappointment --- which is necessary when going through life with this assumption and preference. Given that I have already addressed the issue of the utility of emoticons and other such shorthand in Internet posts, I will not insult you by repeating it in response to your comments on their use. Instead, I shall, perhaps generously, assume that you missed the acknowledgment of their utility in your first skim-through of my response to our friend pinnacle's remarks. (You may also wish to be helpful and note that this post also has nothing to do with writing fanfiction. You need not point that out to me, however, as I am quite aware of that fact.) Do have a good day, mq! They say that caffeine has a stimulating effect on the brain. . . . I myself am starting my second cup of coffee. BTW, pinnacle, the Black-Haired Witch truly does appreciate semantics and is very happy that you mentioned semantics. Meaning and interpretation are so important. Without semantics, there can be no argument, or even any intelligent discussion. Of course, successful discussion assumes a shared semantic . . . and a desire for mutual communication. I enjoyed our discussion. |
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Post by The Black-Haired Witch on Sept 11, 2007 8:24:40 GMT -5
You make me laugh, and sarcasm isn't really something to take too seriously. I agree with your advice, though. However I'm not sure I quite like your dig at Julie Andrews. It's actually difficult to stop using emoticons, I'm struggling because I use them to convey tone of voice, so to speak, and without them I find that often things are misinterpreted. I think beyond this thread I will continue to use them as ever. Ah, Eloquent Phoenix! You are indeed eloquent. May I address you as "Elo"? Elo, the dig you perceive is at the Black-Haired Witch herself, as she is no Disney Mary Poppins. The Black-Haired Witch is, in fact, a great admirer of the marvelous Ms Andrews and has been known to enjoy Mary Poppins --- in the dark, with the draperies closed, and a beer in hand, of course. Her role model, however, is based more upon the P.L. Travers Mary Poppins --- although she was known to dispense fruit-flavored nostrums, I believe. And please do not feel that you must avoid the use of emoticons and other such signals in your posts, here or elsewhere! Use them or not, as you feel the need and desire. In this instance, the Black-Haired Witch was speaking only with regard to her own writing and attitude when explaining that she would eschew them herself. (If you begin to use them as a regular feature of your fanfiction, however, the Black-Haired Witch may have something to say about that. The Black-Haired Witch also recommends against their use in business correspondence and particularly in job applications; however, since the Black-Haired Witch's mission is focussed on fanfiction, she will not discuss the peculiar impression that is made when a job candidate peppers her or his letter of application with Web-speak.) Time to remount My High Horse and find a windmill! Ta ta! |
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Post by EloquentPhoenix on Sept 11, 2007 9:20:04 GMT -5
You really do make me laugh.
You may address me as Elo.
I could never use them in fanfiction, oh the shame of it, and I shall try to avoid them in both business correspondence and job applications, or other such similar things.
It's good to know you secretly love Julie Andrews really.
I'm only trying out the "no emoticons or asterisks" thing here. It won't be something I do very frequently.
Edit: And whilst on the subject of the enter key and paragraphs: what is more annoying than not separating paragraphs is not separating speech from a paragraph or from other speech. I'm almost guaranteed to at least start to skim read, if not give up at all.
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Post by The Black-Haired Witch on Sept 11, 2007 9:36:27 GMT -5
You really do make me laugh. You may address me as Elo. I could never use them in fanfiction, oh the shame of it, and I shall try to avoid them in both business correspondence and job applications, or other such similar things. It's good to know you secretly love Julie Andrews really. I'm only trying out the "no emoticons or asterisks" thing here. It won't be something I do very frequently. Edit: And whilst on the subject of the enter key and paragraphs: what is more annoying than not separating paragraphs is not separating speech from a paragraph or from other speech. I'm almost guaranteed to at least start to skim read, if not give up at all. Perhaps I have found my Sancho Panza! Speech should almost always be separated from a paragraph, and the speech of two different characters should also be separated in that way. (There is almost always an exception to any of the Black-Haired Witch's General Rules for Fanfiction, many of which are based upon generally recognized rules of style and grammar; however, one must first be able to write using the rules before one can begin to consider breaking them for some purpose --- rather than doing so willy-nilly and with little or no understanding that one is doing so.) Thank you for your thoughtful response, Elo! |
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Post by Drake on Sept 11, 2007 15:59:17 GMT -5
YAY! I love it.
I especially love how people are getting offended at this and protesting. Because it is SERIOUS.
You are much fun. ;D
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Post by MinnieQuill on Sept 11, 2007 16:11:45 GMT -5
I'll emphasise the point a little more.
Read what you post before making an idiot of yourself.
Don't call me 'mq'.
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Post by KristaMarie on Sept 11, 2007 16:15:40 GMT -5
You, my dear, are either an english teacher's dream student or their worst nightmare; I guess it depends on the teacher and how much they actually know of the subject.
Anyway, I have to agree that you make several valid points-- especially concerning our pinkie fingers and the enter key-- good LORD that drives me crazy. Anything you have to say about proper spelling would be most welcome from this member. The lack of use of that wonderful tool 'spellcheck' is one of my pet peeves. I'm interested to read your opinion on that subject.
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Post by tabbycat on Sept 11, 2007 16:24:58 GMT -5
I'm not quite sure what to make of you. Minniequill is one of the better writers on here and always has been, and the constant sarcasm in your reply to her is actually bothersome, even if you weren't trying to insult her. It's just not very friendly. Some of the things you say here are amusing and accurate, but really is there anything wrong with being nice to people instead of making a completely uncalled for post?
You may not care very much about what people think of you, but there are personality types who do care and show compassion by gently letting somebody know that what they are doing is a little bothersome. Being carefully critical and sarcastically critical are different, one is helpful and one is hurtful. I'm sorry if I sound really mean right now, anybody who knows me will know that I never speak out of tone unless I'm annoyed enough to.
I have never so much as taken something said in sarcasm this seriously before, and I'm actually a laid-back person, but I think you've taken it a step too far. Being in the peace corps has taught me that being an internet grammar missionary is pointless. Other things are more important and worthy of your time. Let people speak how they are most comfortable speaking, or they won't feel comfortable around you. In fics, of course there needs to some semblance of formality that is maintained... but in just general speaking terms, who are you to insult how people communicate what they think or feel?
For the most part, we're nice here. We're helpful. Sarcasm is one thing, but being immature is another. This really isn't personal- I'm sure in other circumstances we might have things in common, but I'm a little tired of new members coming onto the board and thinking that they are the sudden grammatical leaders of the internet.
If you don't like how somebody speaks, find somebody who you can tolerate without insulting.
And yes, I AM taking this seriously because people who take everything as a joke are really annoying and respect very little.
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Post by The Black-Haired Witch on Sept 11, 2007 19:22:08 GMT -5
YAY! I love it. I especially love how people are getting offended at this and protesting. Because it is SERIOUS. You are much fun. ;D I LOVE you, Sir Francis Drake's Heir! (Are you also the Heir of the Man of La Mancha?) Ahem, sorry for the temporary emotional outburst. You simply inspire it. Thank you very much for your post. I appreciate that you find the Black-Haired Witch much fun! Nothing I could do, say, or even inspire, however, can possibly top your "What Happened to Movie!Dumbledore" for sheer fun and amusement value. I still chuckle when I think of the Random Evil Dudes! Very truly yours, The BHW! |
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Post by The Black-Haired Witch on Sept 11, 2007 19:33:40 GMT -5
You, my dear, are either an english teacher's dream student or their worst nightmare; I guess it depends on the teacher and how much they actually know of the subject. Anyway, I have to agree that you make several valid points-- especially concerning our pinkie fingers and the enter key-- good LORD that drives me crazy. Anything you have to say about proper spelling would be most welcome from this member. The lack of use of that wonderful tool 'spellcheck' is one of my pet peeves. I'm interested to read your opinion on that subject. Oh, I was a dream student and a nightmare teacher. Actually, I was a writing teacher at one time, and my students used to give me very high ratings in the end of term reviews. I genuinely liked my students and believed in them. For many who had been told all of their lives that they "weren't writers," it was a wonderful revelation when they realized that they, too, had something to say and could say it in workman-like prose. (Please forgive the somewhat sexist terminology there! I promise not to use "rule of thumb," however!) I believe, too, that anyone who can go online and post a fanfic can learn how to use whatever appendage is most useful in order to create breaks between paragraphs, including character speech. I have great faith in the general intelligence of most people, but especially in their desire to improve. This is why my friend MMADfan believes me to be a starry-eyed idealist and latter-day Don Quixote. I'm resilient, though, and keep popping back up no matter how disappointing I may find the behavior, attitude, or intentions of any individual, or how ineffective the results of my various quests may be! I keep tilting at windmills and maintaining my sense of humor --- which is occasionally somewhat sarcastic, I admit, but that's why I'm a " latter-day Don Quixote" --- I have more of an ability to recognize the absurdity of my mission and even of myself! Thank you very much for your comment! Most entertaining! |
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Post by The Black-Haired Witch on Sept 11, 2007 19:56:37 GMT -5
I'll emphasise the point a little more. Read what you post before making an idiot of yourself. And precisely what does this quotation from my first post have to do with the price of tea in China --- or with my response to your first comment? As I said in that initial post, I harbor no illusions that I can actually tell you how to write fanfiction that others want to read. Full-stop. And my post then went on to give advice on writing fanfiction --- recommending adding space between paragraphs, to be exact. Given that your first comment was in regard to my response to pinnacle, this seems irrelevant. Since apparently I was to be disappointed yet again, and as much as I wanted to give you credit for intelligence, I will admit that I was wrong in my assumptions. After all, who among us hasn't read something quickly and mistaken the meaning or the writer's intent? I had truly hoped that simply re-reading the thread would have you realize that the post about which you were concerned responded to a comment by pinnacle. My response never purported to be advice on how to write fanfiction. The advice on fanfiction consisted solely of the section, set aside neatly in a block quote, on how to insert space between paragraphs. As it seems that others find this an annoying problem (no space between paragraphs), this was good advice for those who might need it and who wish to take it. I hoped that the manner in which the advice was given would also amuse those who read it. Other than one aside in my message to Elo, I believe that was the extent of my advice on writing fanfic. You said, I suggested that you may have skimmed the posts and not have realized why my post concerned emoticons, etc., thinking you must not have noticed that I was responding to pinnacle's post, which was concerning emoticons and such in Internet posts. I was offering you a gracious "out," as they say. Although the posts are in this thread, I will save you the trouble of scrolling up to read them. I then went on to discuss the general utility of emoticons and other such signals (the "*stuff in asterisks*") in Internet posts. My discussion of "*stuff in asterisks*" never had anything to do with fanfic, nor did I say it did. As for my tone in my response to your post --- someone seems to think I may have injured you --- I thought that giving a person credit for intelligence was respectful, even if there were some tongue-in-cheek aspects to the response. I certainly did not attack your writing, as was implied by your defender, who praised your writing as among the best on the board. At most, I questioned how carefully you read my post concerning "*stuff in asterisks*" before you responded to it. To repeat: that comment was not intended to be advice about writing fanfic, and I found your initial post at the very least non-responsive to what I wrote, and, if I chose to be offended, I could have found it insulting that you apparently either could not expend the energy to understand the thread before responding to it or, worse, were spoiling for a fight by deliberately misreading my discussion of "*stuff in asterisks*." I do believe that the words, "Then why on earth is this post mainly about the pros and cons of using *stuff in asterisks* etc. etc?" were capable of being interpreted as deliberately provocative and insulting. I tried to respond amusingly. You also asked, "This is about fanfic, correct?" Taking "this" to mean the entire thread, the answer would have been, "yes." However, since you followed that question up with the next question --- the one that began in such a friendly and witty manner with "then why on earth" --- the answer is "no, 'this' is not about fanfic." "This" was about pinnacle's friendly comments to my initial post, which I desired to address in order to clarify what I was saying --- despite the fact that her remarks did not discuss anything that I had mentioned with regard to fanfic. I do think it is socially acceptable to have a discussion with someone about something they are concerned about, even if it has nothing to do with fanfic. (And this forum is called "Writing Help," not "Fanfic Writing Help." Even if it were, I still would have responded to pinnacle in the way that I did. It would have been rude for me to say that I was not going to respond to her because her comments did not address my advice on writing fanfic, not to mention that I thought that pinnacle had made an interesting comment and deserved a thoughtful, and perhaps somewhat humorous, response.) I do hope that people who enjoy my peculiar posts will continue to enjoy them, but those who don't are very free to ignore them! And those who may benefit from my unasked for and possibly unwanted advice are very welcome to take what they want from it and discard the rest. (I must say I hold very high hopes that those who do not put spaces between their paragraphs will begin to do so, however. It's a baby step, but it would be in the right direction!) To anyone else who may be concerned that my tongue-in-cheek response to the post was too harsh, I would simply like to point out that "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Or so they say. Minniequill does seem to have a sharp tongue (at least, that is how I interpret her two posts to this thread) and I hope she would have a hide to match. And as I warned everyone in my first post, if you wish to laugh, laugh, if you wish to be offended, be offended, and if you wish to think I am the dumbest thing since bipedal locomotion became the order of the day, you are free to think that, as well. None of my comments are INTENDED to offend, particularly nothing I say about writing and how to improve it. (And heaven knows that I still go back and revise my posts and my ADMM fics sometimes weeks after posting them when I spot an error or have one pointed out to me, so I know that there is always room for improvement for us all.) And I do believe it is more respectful to assume that someone is intelligent and merely made an error, than it is to assume that they are either "an idiot" or that they are malicious. That I chose to make that point in a humorous way that others did not find humorous . . . we all do find different things amusing, don't we? (For example, I love "Fawlty Towers" and "Are You Being Served?" and "All Creatures Great and Small," but I have never understood the appeal of Benny Hill, but obviously many people have found him amusing.) I shall reiterate what I said in my first post: If you don't know whether something is meant seriously, jokingly, or sarcastically, choose what make sense to you. And if you choose to be offended, feel free! Or you may laugh --- it's entirely up to you! I will also add: feel free to ignore me entirely and never read anything I post. I, myself, do so try to avoid reading the posts of those whose attitudes and opinions raise my blood pressure, and I do think that is one good piece of advice I can give to anyone who reads this. If you don't like what I write, don't read it. Why torture yourself? I have to read a great many things in my work life that are truly horrifying and that make a person want to renounce membership in the human race knowing that human beings are capable of such things. Thank goodness I can usually choose not to read posts that I would find personally offensive for whatever reason (we probably have different things that we find offend us; that is to be expected). Please note that I only do this because I suffer from the idealistic assumptions that people can change and that anyone who can write in English and post to the Internet can write somewhat competent prose, and that if they are posting to a fanfic board, they want what they write to be the best it can be, given their time constraints, and they want people to read and enjoy what they write. We won't all become Jane Austens or Kurt Vonneguts or Faye Kellermans, but we can all improve. And despite all the suffering I have seen people inflict on one another, I also have faith that any of us can improve as human beings. All that The Black-Haired Witch wishes to do from Her High Horse, however, is to offer advice to improve some of the more basic aspects of writing, not to try to fix the world. As I told morgainegaunt, unless a specific fanfic writer requests advice from me, I intend to keep my comments impersonal and idealistic, as befits a quixotic mission. However, when someone says something like, "what on earth does this have to do with anything," I will respond in kind. And as I also said in my introduction, I recognize that it is pretty pretentious of me to come riding in here on My High Horse giving everyone writing advice! That's why I don't mind if you tell me I'm pretentious or presumptuous, or if you decide to ignore me altogether; other kinds of comments might insult me, however . . . or I may simply choose to laugh. Now it is time to mount My High Horse and get back to my true mission: finding fanfic windmills to tilt at, rather than defending my own sorry and pathetic self! Most very sincerely yours, The BHW! (Please do feel free to call me the BHW --- it's much shorter and faster to type! And nicer than other things you could call me! Such as "idiot.") |
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Post by Hogwarts Duo on Sept 11, 2007 21:22:55 GMT -5
Okay, BHW… I’m feeling free to call you that since you opened the door!
I’ve been following this thread all day, and I thought I’d chime in. This is Ang from Hogwarts Duo, btw, and I am speaking solely for myself.
I appreciate constructive criticism when I’m writing a story, and I find it helps me to think outside the box sometimes. Case in point is the story we’re currently posting…Flames (shameless plug there…sorry). Anyway, when writing that story, I had a specific back story and series of events in my mind which helped shape the Minerva you see in that particular story. However, the way we constructed the story did not leave room for all of the extra information, which led to Minerva looking like a spoiled brat in some places, which was clearly not the image I wanted to project but nevertheless it was the one that we, as authors, presented. I’ve said all of that to say this: without the constructive criticism of a friend who read the story and had the guts to tell me what she really thought, I might not have been as careful in planning my stories as I plan to be in the future.
I think what you’re trying to do is offer generic advice that we could all use when writing stories. Sure, we don’t all make the same grammar mistakes or formatting mistakes. And since that’s the case, I don’t pay attention to the things that don’t affect me. If I consistently misspell a word, then sure, point that out to me so I can learn from that mistake. If not, then I know that particular set of advice does not apply to me, and I move on with my life.
I see nothing wrong with trying to help others without pointing fingers at individuals and their mistakes and embarrassing someone in a public forum. I have known people who find it perfectly okay to point out a grammar issue in a public forum, and while it’s good to be informed of typos and the like, I believe it also should be handled privately by email or PM. Instead, I believe what you are trying to do is occasionally give out random tidbits of advice which could potentially benefit us all in writing and do so in a humorous way. I have a sarcastic streak in me so I am one who can appreciate the sarcasm in others and actually get quite a few chuckles from it.
Also, I respect the fact that you are intentionally not targeting an individual(s) by name-calling. That serves absolutely no purpose at all and in fact it will only serve to create strife on the board, which I think we will all agree is unwanted. However, I don’t believe in sitting idly by and letting someone walk all over me either.
Anyway…just my two knuts worth. As long as you’re being helpful and not calling people by name or trying to embarrass individuals (which I DO NOT believe is your intent and which I have seen no evidence of) then I welcome the advice and perhaps I might learn something along the way.
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Post by The Black-Haired Witch on Sept 11, 2007 22:13:38 GMT -5
Okay, BHW… I’m feeling free to call you that since you opened the door! I’ve been following this thread all day, and I thought I’d chime in. This is Ang from Hogwarts Duo, btw, and I am speaking solely for myself. <snip!> Also, I respect the fact that you are intentionally not targeting an individual(s) by name-calling. That serves absolutely no purpose at all and in fact it will only serve to create strife on the board, which I think we will all agree is unwanted. However, I don’t believe in sitting idly by and letting someone walk all over me either. Anyway…just my two knuts worth. As long as you’re being helpful and not calling people by name or trying to embarrass individuals (which I DO NOT believe is your intent and which I have seen no evidence of) then I welcome the advice and perhaps I might learn something along the way. Thank you very much, Ang-from-Hogwarts-Duo! Do you mind if I call you Uno? I'd try "Mono," but that reminds me too much of an illness. Of course, if you would prefer, I could be conventional and just call you Ang. Or perhaps AFHD. So Uno, thank you for your comments. I am glad that you appreciate constructive criticism. I agree that typos and grammatical mistakes and the like are best pointed out in an email or a PM; the Black-Haired Witch believes in using reviews for discussion of content or praise of the author. Praise of the author is always nice. Unless it's something along the lines of, "your grammar is very good and you have no typos or misspellings," and no other comment. That is a head-scratcher. Are they damning by faint praise or are they merely so accustomed to reading poorly written fanfiction that they are in shock and feel they must point out your flawless writing, and are so overwhelmed by it that they forget to mention anything about the content? I encountered such a review on ffnet, and so I preferred the latter interpretation, rather than feeling insulted! I also appreciate your comment at the end of your post. There is a fine line between being a tolerant, live-and-let-live sort and allowing someone to walk all over you. I must put Rocinante to bed now so we are ready for another day of tilting at windmills! Thank you again for your kind post! And I do apologize if I have been at all incoherent in my response --- it has been a very long and tiring day and my little gray cells are not at their peak, I am afraid. Most sincerely and gratefully yours, The BHW |
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Post by MinnieQuill on Sept 11, 2007 22:27:30 GMT -5
First things first. You know nothing about me, don't presume to.
Secondly, you are not sarcastic, you're not funny, you are blatantly rude. Personally, I could not give a flying fig if you insulted me, but the fact remains that you, and you alone, are the cause for at least two of our members leaving. Members who have been here far longer than you.
Thirdly, if people don't leave spaces between paragraphs then GET OVER IT. It is not that hard to close the window.
Edit:
Sharp tongue? Yes, most would probably agree with you on that. I make no apologies. As for my 'hide' ... I've been through and done enough to develop a pretty thick one.
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Post by The Black-Haired Witch on Sept 11, 2007 23:41:31 GMT -5
First things first. You know nothing about me, don't presume to. Secondly, you are not sarcastic, you're not funny, you are blatantly rude. Personally, I could not give a flying fig if you insulted me, but the fact remains that you, and you alone, are the cause for at least two of our members leaving. Members who have been here far longer than you. Thirdly, if people don't leave spaces between paragraphs then GET OVER IT. It is not that hard to close the window. As I said, if something I say offends you or doesn't apply to you, feel free to ignore it. And you may also notice that we agree on one thing --- it is very easy to back out of a thread you don't want to read. I will also point out that you know nothing about me aside from the fact that I have begun posting as The Black-Haired Witch, Quixotic Champion of Better-Written Fanfiction, and yet you have drawn some conclusions. I, in turn, drew a conclusion that contradicted my original, apparently generous and incorrect assumption, basing that conclusion on the only evidence presented to me. I would like to have nice folk who wish to have their fics read and enjoyed to have some ideas for ways to improve their stories that are relatively easy to implement. This includes things like using spell-check and inserting spaces between paragraphs. These kinds of things may seem like old-hat to people who have been writing and posting on the Internet for a while, and they certainly aren't secrets, but they are things that not all people consider, especially new writers. It may seem odd to some, but I do care about people. I do not look down on them and assume that they are incapable of improvement, that they do not care about their writing or whether people read it, or otherwise simply dismiss them and assume that I am a naturally superior person, whether I read what they write or not. There seem to be some people who do do this, just as there are also people who believe that they can be directly insulting to others and that it is acceptable because it is they who are doing it, but, ironically, they live in glass houses. I feel very tempted now to respond in kind to certain absolute statements you made about me personally, but I will content myself with the vision of the glass house and try to refrain. Since you very clearly dislike what I write and do not find me amusing, I fail to understand why you continue to read and post to this thread. There are people who have found it amusing, and aside from the time I have wasted in treating seriously that which should have been treated with a healthy dose of scepticism at the very least, I have enjoyed chatting with folks in this thread and will continue to. I find it very difficult to believe that anything I said in any of my posts could have caused people to leave the board. If something I said did precipitate that, I am in awe. In the many, many months, nay, years, I have been reading on this board, in a variety of guises at different times depending on my abode, the amount of time I have to spend on the Internet, and how involved I wish to be in the HP fanfic community, I have seen many insulting, rude, nasty, nauseating, and even hateful things posted, many under the veil of being commentary, opinion, review, or even as fanfiction itself, and no one is supposed to take offense if these nasty pronouncements are made with the appropriate air of superiority or with the implication that if readers take offense, then they are the intolerant ones who cannot appreciate the profundity and personal investment the person has in the insult or the nastiness disguised as commentary. If the fewer than a dozen posts that the Black-Haired Witch has made, only two of which were not written in response to someone else's post, have driven away people from the board and most of which have contained a healthy dose of laughing at myself . . . it is truly incredible and I would be awe-struck. Particularly since Elo, pinnacle, morgainegaunt, KristaMarie, Hogwarts Duo (Ang), and Sir Francis Drake's Heir appear to enjoy conversing with me and reading my posts. Pinnacle even said she found herself wishing I had been a bit more caustic. Anyone who doesn't like my posts is always free to navigate away from this thread, just as I do when I find intolerant, nasty, hateful, mean, nauseating or just-plain-boring posts. This is not a fascist state; no one is forcing anyone to read my posts, and I never declared that I hold the Absolute Truth about anything and expect people to believe it. I will continue to chat and discuss fanfic and pet peeves and other topics with anyone at all who enjoys chatting with me. And I will continue to give my unsolicited advice to anyone who wants it --- never naming any individual who may benefit from the advice, of course, but just giving little tidbits and hints to those who would like them. If no one wants to chat with me, I will quite likely shake the dust from my sandals and move on. Clearly, you are not among the people who either enjoys chatting with me or who would appreciate any advice dispensed with my brand of humor, which you also do not find funny (although you stated it much more strongly and absolutely than that). Ergo . . . Good-bye! |
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Post by MMADfan on Sept 12, 2007 1:11:49 GMT -5
YAY! I love it. I especially love how people are getting offended at this and protesting. Because it is SERIOUS. You are much fun. ;D I LOVE you, Sir Francis Drake's Heir! (Are you also the Heir of the Man of La Mancha?) Ahem, sorry for the temporary emotional outburst. You simply inspire it. Thank you very much for your post. I appreciate that you find the Black-Haired Witch much fun! Nothing I could do, say, or even inspire, however, can possibly top your "What Happened to Movie!Dumbledore" for sheer fun and amusement value. I still chuckle when I think of the Random Evil Dudes! Very truly yours, The BHW! Oh, I, too, love "What Happened to Movie!Dumbledore"! It had me chuckling for days and recommending it to friends who also chuckled for days. I LOVE you SFD's Heir! G'night! |
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Post by The Black-Haired Witch on Sept 12, 2007 7:25:48 GMT -5
« Last Edit: Today at 4:30am by MinnieQuill »
This wasn't there when I read and quoted the original post. It made me laugh.
Spewing nastiness, acting as though I'm doing something dreadful in writing my posts, and everything else you have done since you have inserted yourself into this thread, especially the temper tantrums about my sense of humor, certainly do not show a thick hide although they do show the sharp tongue. (Yes, I know you have told me that you do not share my sense of humor --- what you actually said was, "you are not sarcastic, you're not funny, you are blatantly rude. Personally, I could not give a flying fig if you insulted me.") I did not invite your initial provocation and I now ask that you use your sharp tongue for something other than addressing me. And since you "could give a flying fig," etc., I am sorely tempted, but as the only insults that come to mind simultaneously make me feel sorry for you, I will refrain.
Farewell!
-The Black-Haired Witch
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Post by The Black-Haired Witch on Sept 12, 2007 7:51:09 GMT -5
Hello, Friends!
I do apologize to everyone who has participated in this thread for my departures from my usual quest and mission, which is dispensing writing advice with humor (which is not funny, so please, if you catch yourself laughing, stop --- but try not to choke), and I will try to avoid such digressions into the future, as they are distracting as well as undecorative. Not to mention that they are not amusing. Of course, I am not amusing anyway, nor am I sarcastic, so I suppose that is not a change.
You know, when I first started using the Internet back in the late 80s, in newsgroups and BBs, people used to use the word "troll" to describe a person who engaged in a certain sort of behavior. Is that word still in use? I do feel like Methuselah sometimes.
I have had requests to discuss "spell-check," and that will be the subject of The Black-Haired Witch's next installment of unsolicited advice. Other topic suggestions are welcome!
A very good day, evening, or night to you!
Very truly yours,
The BHW!
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Post by Drake on Sept 17, 2007 16:40:04 GMT -5
I LOVE you, Sir Francis Drake's Heir! (Are you also the Heir of the Man of La Mancha?) Ahem, sorry for the temporary emotional outburst. You simply inspire it. Thank you very much for your post. I appreciate that you find the Black-Haired Witch much fun! Nothing I could do, say, or even inspire, however, can possibly top your "What Happened to Movie!Dumbledore" for sheer fun and amusement value. I still chuckle when I think of the Random Evil Dudes! Very truly yours, The BHW! Why yes. Yes I am.  I'm glad that I inspire random emotional outbursts. And I would like to reiterate just how very hilarious this entire thread is. Especially the responses which seem to be operating under the delusion that this is serious, serious business. ._______. Yes, see? Serious. |
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Post by The Black-Haired Witch on Sept 23, 2007 11:24:15 GMT -5
The Black-Haired Witch returns, this time with advice on using spell-check. I am afraid it is not as amusing – or unamusing, depending upon your point-of-view – as my first installment was, but it is, perhaps, more helpful! So, keeping in mind that none of us are perfect – to err is human, after all – here are some tips on how to improve your authorial image through the technology of spell-check! How do you want to appear to the world, particularly to those reading your ADMM stories? Bright, careful, knowledgeable? Or stupid, lazy, or ignorant? Many readers, when they encounter a story replete with spelling errors assume that the writer is either stupid, lazy, or ignorant. I always prefer to assume the writer is either lazy or ignorant, rather than stupid, since laziness and ignorance can be remedied!
Do you want readers to read your story and pay attention to your plot and characters, or do you want them to read it and be distracted by a plethora of misspellings? Or perhaps even read the first paragraph and then leave your story without finishing it?
Fortunately, there’s good news: if you have figured out how to post your story to the Web, you can learn to use spell-check!
Most people use Microsoft Word to write their stories, but all major word processing programs have spell-check. Do you see little red squiggles under words in your document? This means that Word (or WordPerfect) has its spell-check feature enabled, and it does not recognize that word as it’s spelled. This might mean that you spelled it correctly, but the word is not in the program’s spelling dictionary, but it’s quite likely that you have misspelled the word. Spell-check is fairly reliable, unlike the grammar-checking feature, which has some significant weaknesses.
To set Word to automatically check the spelling in your document, click on “Tools,” “Options.” In “Options,” select the tab that says “Spelling & Grammar.” From there, you can choose to have the program check your spelling as you type. You can also set other options there. (If you normally write in a language other than English, most word processors include multiple language options, although you have to install them, and you can choose to use English instead of whatever language you usually use. In Word, click on “Tools,” “Language,” then “Set Language,” and choose the language you want, for example UK English or US English.)
If Word or WordPerfect puts the little red squiggles under a word and you want to know which word the program thinks you might want, right-click on the word and you will see a list of possible spellings. You can click on the one you want to use, if it is there.
Don’t want the program to check your spelling as you go? Or prefer to check the whole document at once when you are finished writing? In Word, click on “Tools,” then on “Spelling and Grammar,” and Word will go through the document and stop at each error. (There is an option to have the grammar check on or off. To only run spell-check, leave the box unchecked. WordPerfect settings are slightly different, but it can do the same thing.)
Spell-check has two drawbacks; the first is that if the word you have typed is a real word but isn’t the one you want, it won’t catch it. For example, I often type “fro” when I mean “for.” “Fro” is a real word, so the spell-checker won’t catch it. This means proofreading. One of the best ways to proofread is to read your document out loud. Not only might you be able to catch those typos that Word can’t (“cant” instead of “can’t” is another common typo that Word won’t be able to recognize, since “cant” is a real word), but you will often be able to hear when you have written something that is awkward or that doesn’t say what you want it to say. If English is your native language, you will have an innate sense when a sentence is awkward or nonsensical, but even if English is your second language (or third or fourth), you may still hear problems with your sentences that you might not notice when you read them silently.
Another good method for proofreading for spelling or punctuation errors, if you are very picky, is reading the text backwards. It’s boring and tedious, but because you aren’t reading what you think you mean, you won’t be as likely to miss an error. This is an old, pre-computer method for proofreading. This method is tedious to the extreme and an excellent cure for insomnia, but it may be useful to you.
Let’s say that your spell-checker finds a word that it says is misspelled, but you know that none of its suggestions are correct, or the program doesn’t even have a suggestion. What do you do? If you are positive you spelled the word correctly, ignore the spell-checker. If you aren’t sure whether you are right or the program is, try checking the word at a dictionary Website. One good dictionary for simply checking spellings is the Free Dictionary. This is an especially good resource, because if you misspell a word and the dictionary thinks it knows what word you actually mean, it will suggest one, and it also shows you dozens of words that would occur before and after that word in the dictionary.
There are a lot of words in the HP universe that won’t be in your word processor’s dictionary, but there are still correct and incorrect ways of spelling them. A good resource for the correct canon spellings of HP words is Mrs Muggle’s Potterwords . This is a particularly good resource if you are concerned about whether a word should be capitalized or not. But even if you don’t care about whether Quidditch should be capitalized or not, you may care that you spell it correctly. You can add canon words to your spell-checker. When you have typed the word and you are sure it is correctly spelled, right click on it, then select “Add.” From now on, every time you type that word, the spell-checker will recognize it. So if I add “Quidditch” and accidentally type “Quiditch,” the spell-checker will recognize that it is misspelled and suggest the correct spelling. You can even add character names, if you like. Seeing “McGonagall” misspelled on a Website devoted to Minerva McGonagall and Albus Dumbledore is jarring, to say the least. (The Black-Haired Witch recognizes that some of the HP characters have had their names changed when the books were translated into other languages, but usually the unconventionally spelled names are simply misspelled, not versions from a different language. The HP Lexicon is a great resource for all of the characters’ original names, as well as for a lot of interesting HP trivia.)
The ADMM board has a spell-check feature, as well. Just click the button below the message box to run it.
As a bonus for you today, the Black-Haired Witch giving you a short list of correctly-spelled canon words that you can add to your spell-checker – remember, just right click the word, then click “Add.” Just cut and paste this list into a blank document and you’re ready to go!
McGonagall
Albus
Dumbledore
Quidditch
Quaffle
Bludger
Hogwarts
Pensieve
Filius
Flitwick
Severus
Apparate
Disapparate
Splinch
Alohomora
Silencio
Sonorus
Slytherin
Gryffindor
Hufflepuff
Ravenclaw Till next time, happy spell-checking! -The BHW |
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Post by pinnacle on Sept 23, 2007 19:09:56 GMT -5
May I also add that Firefox has a spell-check built right in, as one of its many perks! Best browser ever. < getfirefox.com> |
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Post by jkamd18 on Nov 7, 2008 14:51:42 GMT -5
cool
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Post by mercifulheavens on Jan 9, 2009 2:43:40 GMT -5
BHW,
I must say that I greatly admire your fortitude as I am far more prone to weeping whilst under attack. Your advice is most helpful and I look forward to reading more of your humourous posts.
Sincerely,
mercifulheavens
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