Americanisms and erm... Non-americanisms

[EloquentPhoenix]

I don't know if this is the right board so I'm sorry if it isn't, I'm just curious.

When I read fanfiction I always notice if the writer is American or learned american english. Things like color/colour, center/centre, -ised/-ized. Which do people prefer or am I the only one who notices... I'm weird like that. And is it the done thing to write it the American way?

[Isabelle]

You're not the only one to notice that! I've seen it as well. I think it's an American thing to do that. I don't know.

For myself, I don't have a preference, but I think that when you see those differences in English, it's because when most people learn English, they learn proper English, something that to me, seems nonexistent in America.

And to be stereotypical, most people that I know like to take shortcuts with everything, so it seems plausible to me that that is why most Americans switch everything or drop a letter or something like that.

But then again, that was how we were taught to write it in school. I wonder when they changed it though, because when I look back at historical documents i.e. the Declaration of Independence or the Articles of Confederation, I've noticed that those were written in proper English and they even capitalized nouns like they do in German!

In short, most Americans in general just don't speak or write proper English. At least in my opinion, I know I don't all the time. And we use too many double negatives and the word "like" in our speech much too often!

I hope that helped a little. If any of my fellow compatriots have anything to add, please do! I know I'm no expert on this topic, it's only my opinion.

Liz

Liz

[childminerva]

Sadly, I'm one of those "stupid" americans. And its true, we don't know proper english. I just speak/write the way I was taught, poorly.
Has anyone else seen "My Fair Lady?" I have the soundtrack and my favorite song is "Why can't the English learn to speak?!" My favorite quote from that song would be..."there even are places where english completely disappears. Why In America, they haven't spoken it for years!"

If anyone ever notices something completely 'American' in one of my fics and it bothers you, please let me know so I can fix it.

childminerva/miss mcGonagle

[lazy mugglemin]

I would assume that "Americanisms" are used by North Americans, and non-Americanisms by the Brits. The inbetweenies are probably the non-native English speakers - many of whom may be taught American spelling in school.

I'm from the UK, and have been an English teacher in Japan, where the spelling taught is American. This doesn't bother me at all - I don't believe there's any such thing as "proper English" and language is constantly in flux, changing every day, so it's really not that important. I once went to a lecture about the English language where I was presented with the idea of "Englishes" as opposed to "English" - there being so many varieties of the same language. It's really not important whether you use the UK (or Queen's English, for want of a better term) spelling, or the American spelling, as long as you are consistant.

This is the philosophy of language I TRY to stick to. I can be a complete snob at times, though - especially when I see American slang/terms in the mouths of Albus or Minerva. I'm just being a pedent, though.

The other thing that really gets me is the word "gotten". In UK English, the past tense of "got" is "got". That one drives me nuts - for no particularly logical reason...

mugs.x

[lazy mugglemin again]

...And here is an example of appaling UK English. I correct myself: The past tense of "Get" is "got". And "PedENT" is spelt "pedAnt". So all you yanks out there bemoaning the standard of your English, fear not! Brits can't speak proper English neither.

[foci]

LOL. Even I got the joke of that last sentence.
At first I had not particularly cared about whether people (or I) use British or American English in HP fanfics, but since then I changed my mind (with a slight influence of mugglemin - winks). HP is British, the characters are British so why don't we all strain ourselves a bit and write them speaking British? As I'm not a native speaker, half of the time I still don't notice that AmE is being used, but I can't stand it when whole AmE sentences are said by HP characters. Especially the younger authors suffer from this, because naturally, younger writers are more interested in characters their age.

[Alesia]

I have agree with Foci the more HP fanfics I read the more I am able to guess whether or not the writer is American or British. I try to use British English when I can but will admit I am very American.

I too agree what I retained of my language education is poor. (I find it completely ironic ~as does my mother~ that I struggled through 10 years of 'English' some of which I hated and did quite poorly, and now am a technical writer for a living.)

I am also with childminerva, if you see something in one of my fics that should be more British, please let me know!!

[Isabelle]

I agree with of you foci and mugglemin! Since the books are British, we should try to write that way as well. I try not to let my jaw drop when I see American slang as well, particularly with Madame Hooch, but it's hard not to.

With the writing I used to do, and am still trying to do, I just about wracked my brain trying to get into the mind of the British. I think that is why I have such difficulties writing dialogue. Needless to say, I don't believe I am all that successful.

Oh, and childminerva, that is one of my favorite songs on the soundtrack as well, and it's so true! When I hear others talk around me or a sond on the radio, I can't help but cringe! I think that also comes from all the emphasis we put on diction and annunciation in my choir.

[ginger newts]

As some of you have probably noticed by now, this whole language thing is a particular pet peeve of mine (for no good reason). I was taught how to speak and spell in America and the default spellchecker on my writing software is set to US English, so I've always just let the spelling go. However, *triumphant noise* I recently learned how to set it to UK English and now feel vindicated in that I can spell things properly. >>>geek

I think the biggest issue isn't really spelling, but the way the characters speak. I'm sure I've been guilty of slipping in some Americanisms from time to time, but I try to be careful of that. That being said, I tend to judge, not a writer's nationality, but rather his/her age by the number of "Americanisms" used. I think it's because I particularly notice them when someone writes Albus or Minerva speaking like an American teenager. *horrific shudder* It's definitely important to remember character's ages. Albus and Minerva are much older, and grew up in much different times, than all of us here and that needs to be taken into account when writting dialogue.

I think that in order to keep the HP characters "in character," we need to respect their Britishness and not use experessions that are purely American in nature. At the very least, don't put words in their mouths that you hear in a public school lunch room. Then again, I'm a hopeless Anglophile and regularly get funny looks from my friends for using British expressions. ;D

Just my very opinionated two knuts.

[EloquentPhoenix]

Wow. I hadn't expected other people to actually notice spellings and such. Many of you have said American expressions., can someone give me an example of one please because I don't think I've seen any in any fanfiction I've read or an books by american authors. Ohh except for "bangs" it's not an english word! The first time I read that word (In a Torey Hayden book) I was like "What the...?" I now know what it means But is that the kind of thing you mean? I can't say I've ever noticed many of them.

[foci]

I hope this actually qualifies as an example.
This is a quote from my own story, Foretold Love:
>“Did you realise that we forgot to cast the Contraceptive Charm about ten occasions since Christmas?” she asked her husband curiously to change the topic.
“We did?” he asked with a mock-serious expression. Seeing her frown, he added immediately:
“It seems we did, love.”< The last sentence was originally "I guess we did, love." and was corrected by mugglemin.

I don't think it would have been horribly offending to have Albus say "I guess", but "it seems" is definitely more age-appropriate for him and is not AmE opposed to "I guess".

I would give you more examples but the deadline for my thesis is just around the corner(sighs).

[TartanLioness]

Perosnally, I TRY to write English when I write HP fanfiction. However, having watched too much tv and having been too obsessed with the US (don't ask me why, I have no idea) has led me to use AmE often. Also, English is not my native language (Danish is) and though I've studied English for five years, I'm still not perfect

Of course, who are?? As you all say, not even the British speak "proper English"...

Well, that's my two cents

Cammie

[Minx]

I'm as American as they come and I have a lot of trouble writing in Proper English. I write in what I call Minnesota American. ;D

Minnesota American can be very confusing...even for us who grew up around it! <wink>

If you see any major blunders in my fic "The Bond" let me know and I'll try to correct them for the next fic.

[gahhMinerva]

I'm also American, and it would be difficult for me to kick the habit of talking like an American. However, I do try to use proper grammar and proper spelling, according to American English, at least. I do agree that many Americans have no idea what grammar is, and many can't even spell the word. It would probably surprise a lot of Americans that they don't talk properly. Personally, my family (all of it, including cousins, uncles, aunts, etc.) constantly uses double-negatives, and they probably don't know what subject-verb agreement is.

One reason most Americans use so many American expressions in Harry Potter fanfiction is because we probably don't know that these phrases are actually "American." When Foci wrote that "I guess" is an American expression, I had no idea that it was explicitly American. Words we say here are so commonly used that we don't even think that they are purely American expressions.

As for spelling, I use the American versions. I don't know when we Americans officially changed our spelling from that of the British, but I'm sure it's possible to find out, perhaps by tracing the roots of Webster's dictionary. Personally, I think if I regularly got into adding U's into words like color, it would become habit, likely resulting in strange stares or comments from my teachers.

[zoeteproet]

Why don't we all start to write fanfics in Dutch
I'm very sorry but I realy don't see the difference between American English and proper English.
But when I watch a movie I like proper English more than American English, they speak so sweet (Bridget Jones Diary, Colin Firth is so cute).
At school in Belgium they teach us proper English, we even have to speak it like the real English people, so when I speak American English my teacher always has to correct me.
I guess I just watch to much 'American English movies'.

[EloquentPhoenix]

Do you mean things like the pronunciation of words like zebra in the two countries?

[foci too busy to sign in]

gahhMinerva, and everyone else,
Personally, I'm for HP characters using BrE terms or at least not very typically American phrases, but as for the spelling, I don't think that members of the US should start spell color colour from now on. I started to write my first fic in AE spelling and switched after months to BrE, but it's not a big deal when you are writing in a foreign language. As long as the grammar is correct I don't think people care much.
And I know what you mean when you say you had no idea that 'I guess' was English, I hadn't known this either before it came up in my fic and my beta pointed it out.
There has to be books about BrE and AE, I own one too, actually.
If people took care to respect the nationality of their characters it would be easier for the readers to distinguish between AE and BrE terms, meaning that if I read a HP fic, I could know for sure that a certain word is British, thus when I switch to a - say - ER fic and read a different phrase meaning the same thing, I'd know that this is American and use the phrases correctly in my own stories. Yeah, I'm daydreaming.
Many authors are foreign and have no idea whether they write in an Aussie dialect or in cockney.

[MsAmandahLeigh]

In dialogue, I try to make my character sound as natural and in-character as possible. However, spelling "color" with a 'u' does not change the way the word sounds, so I see not reason to write "'I like that colour,' Albus said with a smile..." or something like that. I do not want to get in the habit of 'misspelling' certain words by getting used to writing them the UK way. I do like reading fanfics written in the British way, though, because it adds a layer of...hmm... authenticity to the story. But I think I would rather read a fic that sounds or looks sort-of American than to read one in which the author has obviously tried to hard to "write British" and it just doesn't work.