|
|
Post by ιady ταвz on Oct 20, 2007 14:05:31 GMT -5
She sunk our ship and put the Titanic over top of it. indeed  |
|
|
|
Post by esoterica1693 on Oct 20, 2007 15:19:17 GMT -5
And while AD's sexuality perhaps contributes to some of his own inner emotional turmoil, all of that is totally behind the scenes as far as the books themselves go. Not one action of his *in the books themselves* changes, whether he's gay, bi-, straight or asexual.
We can speculate as to how his relationship w/ GG affected his own sense of self, how it made his duel w/ him all the more difficult, how it contributed to his delay in fighting him, etc., and that it may have made him even more likely to be tolerant of difference and determined to fight bias and oppression, and all of that is well and good.
But the indisputable fact is that no action of AD's in the books themselves, towards Harry, Min, any student, any adult, or anyone or anything at all, can be linked to whatever sexual attractions he might have felt or how he might have judged his own or others' sexuality. You can totally delete JKR's comment from the universe and it makes no difference to understanding the narrative on the page. Nor does it when it's known. For all we know from what JKR wrote (and even what she said), AD might have lived a totally physically celibate life. Even in his relationship w/ GG. His attraction to GG might have been largely or entirely unrequited on a romantic/sexual level, even though they were obviously very close emotionally for a short period of time.
Which means that anyone who claims the books are "bad" b/c of AD's sexuality is saying that they think that gay people, even if they live their entire lives entirely w/in the most stringent heterosexist norms and expectations, totally chastely or celibately, are simply inherently inferior and should be avoided, simply b/c of their 'orientation,' not b/c of their actions. As far as we know from what's on the page and what JKR has said, there is not one sexual action or motive portrayed in connection w/ AD anywhere in the books. Unlike w/ Ron, Harry, Hermione, Lavender, Cho, Cedric, Ginny, Draco, Pansy, etc......Bella is written more sexually than Albus is as far as the actions we see her take on the pages of the books.
|
|
|
|
Post by TheGryffindorSeeker on Oct 20, 2007 17:15:08 GMT -5
i knew he was gay....with laughter n joy but not that way. friend just told me and gave me interview link
i'm going with what good few of u have said, he's bi
man! what a bubble burster!
though would be a great fic on how minerva turned him haha
|
|
|
|
Post by admmityourlove on Oct 20, 2007 17:19:45 GMT -5
esoterica1693, I agree with you completely. If I wasn't an ADMM shipper, I would be in rapture about Jo's ingenuity and bravery to stick her toes into some very controversial waters. I know that his orientation has absolutely no effect on the books or AD's actions. In fact, in my opinion it highlights Albus' insecurity, his deepest secret, and makes him more human.
However, since this pronouncement has bruised my shipper side so intensely I cannot help but to go into the world of non canon, believing Albus is either straight or bi, and scorning JKR for crumbling our ship once again and leaving us to pick up the pieces. That is why my signature is what it is, because my love for ADMM is stronger than my silent admiration of a new level of insight into the world of Albus Dumbledore.
|
|
|
|
Post by Leaves of Green on Oct 20, 2007 20:50:27 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by forgottenxstar on Oct 20, 2007 21:15:46 GMT -5
I thought I was going to be sick for a moment. Did not see that one coming. I can't buy into it either, one of the kids- maybe , but Albus?! no, no, and no. with GG too? refuse to believe it.
I mean I love to ship gay couples- my favorite harry potter ship is Remus/Sirius. So I will give her props for allowing her characters to be homosexual, but, JK you chose the wrong character to tell us about.
Yeah, he's bi now in my mind. Or just still straight, yeah i'll go with that.
|
|
pip
First-year Student
Sparrabeth
Posts: 2
|
Post by pip on Oct 20, 2007 21:35:12 GMT -5
Okay. I just read an article in the SCMP about this and my reaction was - ' NOOO!!! WHY DUMBLEDORE!!! anyone but him!!!' .slightly homophobic you might say. NOT on purpose. I think I'll accept that he's Bi, caus i love this ship so much...
McGonagall rules.
|
|
|
|
Post by mmadlyinlove on Oct 21, 2007 1:25:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm going with the 'bi' idea.... Come on, our ship needs to survive someway.
I'm having a hard time seeing it personally, but I think that's more to do with the fact that I am such a MMAD fan that I don't want to think of either of them with anyone else, so to say that he is gay totally burst my bubble. I mean, I congratulate JK on her bravery and for doing what she felt was right, and I agree that if I was not an ADMM fan, I would have nodded in approval even. But it's so hard because MMADness makes up almost my entire ff world. Hahaha. That's how people know me, is Always Hopeful, the fluffy MMAD writer. So it was a big blow, really.
But if he must like guys, I am going with the 'bi' theory. If I must. Hahaha.
~mmadlyinlove~
|
|
|
|
Post by Catwoman99 on Oct 21, 2007 1:58:17 GMT -5
Well, I just saw the article on Yahoo and came straight over here. Apparently, I missed something along the way because I did not see that coming.
I'll just stick with my own fantasy - Albus and Minerva are living quite happily together and have lots of grandchildren!
Of course, there is my husband's take on it, "He likes sherbet lemons and has a flaming bird, how could you not see it!"
Sigh.
- April
P.S. Does anyone else have the song "Keep it Gay" from The Producers stuck in their heads right now?
|
|
|
|
Post by tartanmin on Oct 21, 2007 8:14:45 GMT -5
My brother told me yesterday, and I was and so what..?
I'm don't care for me there's still Min and Albus..
in my fantasy world that is.. In reality fantasy world, he is gay but that's fine with me.
|
|
|
|
Post by nemi on Oct 21, 2007 9:14:36 GMT -5
My friend is having a field day about this right now.
AD/MM aside, I think it's very original and brave of JKR. I only wish she'd put it in the books, although I understand that she probably thought there would have been too much outrage, as young children wouldn't understand and would be confused. It would have actually made a very interesting scene if we got to read JKR's take on how Harry finds out. (Yet another betrayal on Dumbledore's part, haha)
If we put AD/MM in the picture I was kind of becoming increasingly dubious about it anyway. Dumbledore always seemed to want to act on his own, and Jo did say once that some of the professors are married. I think, if we count her response to someone asking if she was in love with Albus, that Jo meant to include Minerva as one of them. It did strike me at the time, because she seems the type that would be married and given her age would have had to be married, while there seems to be no indication towards Albus having interest in women (or, indeed, men) whatsoever.
I do actually think that Minerva had some sort of feelings for Albus but knew it could never happen. She probably put it aside. They were clearly very, very close friends. I think they probably loved each other, but only as friends - and it will have been convenient for them to look involved, yes.
But *waits to be viciously attacked* I don't think Albus will have done anything; the reason being his heartbreak over Grindelwald. I think that would be the same whether Gellert Grindelwald was a woman or a man; however, he was a man, and I think that making the "love of Albus' life" male is quite unusual. And while the principle of rivalry isn't exactly original, the fact that she's made the mentor, that happily-married Harry looked up to, the homosexual one is slightly more unorthodox.
The whole thing is bittersweet and because it's less simple, it's more entertaining. I think we should look at this in a slightly different way; she's not stopping us writing fanfiction about Albus and Minerva, but the nature of it's changed. Tragic "hopeless attachment" stories are always more interesting and I think it will be quite intriguing to write about exactly what type of relationship they had if it wasn't romantic.
One thing remains, though: the ship is sunk. We should adapt to it, rather than be in denial about it.
|
|
|
|
Post by minerva62 on Oct 21, 2007 15:03:28 GMT -5
My main problem with all this is that he was in love with Gellert and then just never loved again for 160 years? Doesn't that seem a little extreme? If he was really that burned, I doubt he would have believed in love as much as he seems to. This is exactly what I am thinking......He was 18 years old when that happened.......I believe that maybe he suffered from it for quite a long time, but he was about 60 years old when he met Minerva (as a student) and I think that if he fell for her some years later he was maybe about 65.......That's a long time to live without love......I am still convinced that at least at that time he finally found out that he is bi and so I still see our ship exists....  ....it just has to...!!!!! |
|
|
|
Post by minerva62 on Oct 21, 2007 15:32:37 GMT -5
I was going to come on here and update my story "The Deepest Mystery" in the romance section, but I've lost all my focus and creativity and ADMM pride thanks to JKR. : I fully understand you, admmityourlove, I have been reading "Resolving A Misunderstanding" for days now and I am really hooked on it, but since I've learned about JKR's revelation I just can't concentrate on fanfiction....Guess I have to convince myself first that the ship still exists and is (somewhat) sensible......  |
|
|
|
Post by muriel2532 on Oct 21, 2007 15:34:04 GMT -5
Could somebody obliviate me, please? If I wasn't an ADMM shipper, this wouldn't affect me at all. But to not only sink our ship by simply stating that they were not an item, but to blow the whole scenario to smithereens instead - well, that's just too much. We've been torpedoed! A lot of people here and elsewhere have said that it's great that JKR has taken a stand for more tolerance towards homosexual people by making one of her main characters gay. That would be true, if she really had. But what she's done now essentially is create a gay character who was kept in the closet throughout the series. That in my opinion is the wrong signal if she had actually wanted to take a stand for gay rights. I personally think that it would have been better to a) make him openly gay or b) discard the whole idea of a gay character. Option a) was never a real option given the prevailing prejudices against homosexuals and the fact that this is a childrens novel (although if one accepts homosexuality as natural there is no reason why children shouldn't be confronted with it at an early age - one can never learn tolerance early enough). Option b) would have been fine because frankly I don't think that it's essential to the plot of the books as they are written. The whole Albus/Gellert friendship/rivalry thing works without him being gay, too. But NO she had to choose the coward's way of making him gay and keeping him in the closet until after the books were all published. Now that's just annoying.  This has seriously ruined my weekend. I can't imagine him being bi. And I am not going down the road of shipping a gay character as straight. JKR has totally done it for me - even if I wanted to, I could never imagine him as part of a heterosexual pairing again. I'm just going to have to start reading A LOT of angst (which I generally hate - I'm all for fluff). Kudos to esoterica1693 for the first fic which acknowledges the fact that our ship has sunk (and currently rests at the bottom of the Mariana Trench). It was painful to read, but still very, very good! |
|
|
|
Post by pinnacle on Oct 21, 2007 16:48:31 GMT -5
I don't think everybody has the all the facts... this is JKR's direct quote, transcribed by The Leaky Cauldron. Consider the way she words her answer.
Did Dumbledore, who believed in the prevailing power of love, ever fall in love himself?
JKR: My truthful answer to you... I always thought of Dumbledore as gay. [ovation] ...Dumbledore fell in love with Grindelwald, and that added to his horror when Grindelwald showed himself to be what he was. To an extent, do we say it excused Dumbledore a little more because falling in love can blind us to an extent? But, he met someone as brilliant as he was, and rather like Bellatrix he was very drawn to this brilliant person, and horribly, terribly let down by him. Yeah, that's how I always saw Dumbledore. In fact, recently I was in a script read through for the sixth film, and they had Dumbledore saying a line to Harry early in the script saying I knew a girl once, whose hair... [laughter] I had to write a little note in the margin and slide it along to the scriptwriter, "Dumbledore's gay!" [laughter] "If I'd known it would make you so happy, I would have announced it years ago!"
Things I want to point out:
• She always thought this of him. Yes, it's so very strange how she never mentioned it outright in the books though, especially since they're for children. /sarcasm. And she has a lot to say about it. It's not something she made up on the spot to support slash-writers or gay rights activists nor to intentionally piss people off. Is JKR not allowed to be neutral?
• Why would she need another publicity stunt? Every time she goes for a stroll is a publicity stunt.
• Gay does not equate to pedophile.
• I don't know how this is any more of an attack on AD/MM than it is on any other Dumbledore 'ship [except AD/GG, obviously]. JKR's not targeting anybody.
It's very weird to see all these varied responses, though, some of which are WAY on opposite ends of the rationality spectrum. I really like nemi's post.
Edit: This is what it's like when she's making stuff up, hehe.
A very cute 8 year old girl: In Goblet of Fire, Dumbledore said that his brother was prosecuted for practicing illegal charms against a goat. I was wondering what those charms were that he was practicing? [Audience is hysterical and Jo is biting her lips, stifling a laugh]
JKR: Um… how old are you??
Girl: Eight.
JKR: [rolling her eyes... struggling to find an acceptable answer here] ...He was trying to find ways to... keep a goat... clean? Curly horns? Um... that's a joke that works on a couple of levels. As you know, Aberforth does have a strange fondness for goats, which, if you've read book 7, came in very useful to Harry later on. A goat... a stag... if you’re a stupid Death Eater, what’s the difference? That is... my answer to you.
LOL.
|
|
blpaul
Gryffindor Seeker
Off with his Head! No! Opps, too late...
Posts: 38
|
Post by blpaul on Oct 21, 2007 17:05:59 GMT -5
My Aunt told me on the way to Church this morning, and I laughed out loud for five minutes! Then she told me she was serious, that she had read an interview where JKR said he was. Oh well, its not going to keep up from believing and writing, will it!  |
|
|
|
Post by whitescaramouche on Oct 21, 2007 17:52:07 GMT -5
I agree with pinnacle that homosexuality is not pedophilia by any means, but I have to admit that as I was re-reading the King's Cross scene in DH in light of recent events, I was extra glad that Harry (who isn't a child anyways at this point) figured out how to summon clothes or else what is a really touching scene would be one really awkward...
I'm having trouble too with ADMM fan fiction, but I think that mentally I'll have to split canon Albus from ADMMfanfiction!Albus.
Oh, and through the series when I would finish the book before other people I would jokingly pretend to spoil it by saying a variation of the following "So it turns out Dumbledore and Voldemort are lovers and are in on things together, and their trying to kill Harry, but he just won't die, but he goes and chokes on a chicken bone and dies, and then we find out Hermione is really a man, and Neville becomes the protagonist" Now that doesn't seem to random.
One thing that really bothers me is that I felt like her statement "Not everybody fall in love" was sort of a criticism of all the random pairings out there, but to be honest statistically speaking, he's more likely to be interested in women than men, AND we assumed throughout the series that Grindlewald was some type of Nazi-esque LV, and I don't think anyone would have thought he was particularly into that....so imho, ADGG is more random than ADMM.
|
|
|
|
Post by ιady ταвz on Oct 21, 2007 18:57:14 GMT -5
Ive just read that she said this: As for telling her admiring readers about the sexual preference of Professor Dumbledore, she said: "I had to give you something to talk about for the next 10 years ... Just imagine the fan fiction now." So when she says she had to give something to talk about, what's she saying? That she did it for FF or what? She's right though, people will tak for quite a while i can say. |
|
|
|
Post by Aribeth on Oct 21, 2007 19:36:36 GMT -5
I could use Rowling for bowling! WTF why would she do that! I'm writing Rowling a strongly worded letter! Pu-lease if Rowling thinks she is going to mess with mwa you are so wrong! I am so going into a brief Massie stage write now! So watch out people I could get mean!
|
|
|
|
Post by pinnacle on Oct 21, 2007 20:21:32 GMT -5
Ive just read that she said this: As for telling her admiring readers about the sexual preference of Professor Dumbledore, she said: "I had to give you something to talk about for the next 10 years ... Just imagine the fan fiction now." So when she says she had to give something to talk about, what's she saying? That she did it for FF or what? She's right though, people will tak for quite a while i can say. I don't want to sound as though I take The Leaky Cauldron's word as irreversible fact, but their transcript quotes her as saying, "...Oh, my god, the fan fiction now, eh?" Which I imagine your source paraphrased. So that sounds to me like a bit of an afterthought. And this is just me, but her comment before ("You needed something to keep you going for the next 10 years!") seemed like dry humor on her part. Of course, if only someone would stick their video of her Q&A session on YouTube, I could find out, but no... Oh, if anyone is interested, here is what Laura Mallory has to say on the topic: abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Story?id=3755544&page=2It's not very surprising.  |
|
|
|
Post by alter.ego.alana on Oct 21, 2007 20:40:13 GMT -5
I don't know if you guys will find this as amusing as I do, but with this new development I have to share.
I liked this guy for awhile, and he recently came out to me. I always called him "Albus" to my friends as a codename because he had red hair. I would use the codename "Minerva" for myself. Anywho, he came out to me a week or so ago. And he told me who he was crushing on...who happened to be blond. Like Gellert.
I'm pretty sure JKR is watching my life.
|
|
|
|
Post by ιady ταвz on Oct 21, 2007 20:51:36 GMT -5
haha WOW, what a coincidence lol =P
|
|
|
|
Post by Drake on Oct 21, 2007 21:38:34 GMT -5
Well, unlike all most of you, I'm pretty much delighted.
I have no idea why.
Maybe it's because I'm gay myself.
Or Bi, but whatever.
|
|
|
|
Post by monsie on Oct 21, 2007 22:51:25 GMT -5
Well, unlike all most of you, I'm pretty much delighted. I have no idea why. Maybe it's because I'm gay myself. Or Bi, but whatever. Agreed and I think it's because I'm just glad she acknowledges that there are gay people in the Potter-verse. The only gay characters in the series (up until now) have been fanon. SFDH, I'll try not to follow you around too much. *crosses heart* Really, I will! |
|
|
|
Post by esoterica1693 on Oct 21, 2007 22:57:53 GMT -5
alteregoalana--
My immediate visceral reaction to the news was, "D*mn, even the best men in my *fictional* life are gay!"
Well, actually that was my reaction after finishing DH the second time through, which is pretty much what set my gaydar onto full-siren-alert mode re Albus, rather than the "hmm, entirely possible" mode it had been in before. Jo's outing him just confirmed it!
Luckily I have very finely and accurately tuned gaydar in RL. Else my boringly het lovelife would have many huge craters of angst in it. As it is it looks more like a desert <g>, since I tend to work in fields which have a strong lavender hue.
|
|
|
|
Post by Drake on Oct 21, 2007 23:11:08 GMT -5
Monsie, you are hilarious.
And Essy, I know what you mean. I know what you mean.
|
|
|
|
Post by pinnacle on Oct 22, 2007 0:11:38 GMT -5
I love your icon, Sir Francis Drake's Heir (I think you might have supplied me with an alternative nickname once, but I forgot...). I do. A slightly more - er - flavorful variation to that line that I've seen is "peen."
*runs away*
|
|
|
|
Post by alter.ego.alana on Oct 22, 2007 7:06:18 GMT -5
My cousin Nikki [yumearia] is gay and she refuses to believe Albus is gay. We talked on the phone for about an hour last night, mainly just cursing JKR for sinking our ship even further.
And to esoterica -
I used to think I had a good gaydar, but I think someone ripped it out and drove over it with a semi. I swear, I never HONESTLY thought of Albus as gay. I always thought he was just eccentric, and that explained the crazy robes, etc. I had read some Grindeldore prior to this news, but now that it's official I don't want to anymore, because I simply don't believe it. It was just fun for me - a ship that would never become canon so I could like it for that.
But I think more than anything, this news has confirmed my status as a hardcore ADMM believer! Nothing else makes sense!
YAY ADMM!
|
|
|
|
Post by pinkie on Oct 22, 2007 9:59:13 GMT -5
Esoterica really said it all - but i still wanted to say something (i am a terrible blabbermouth).
Albus Dumbledore is very flamboyant. He is kind (well, most of the time) and well-spoken and he is good with people.
I don't consider these to be specifically homosexual. I consider them human.
I would rather have remained unaware of his sexuality, be it straight, gay, bi or a. To me his sexuality is not important. His sexuality has nothing to do with any event in the books. You might say that his closeness to Grindelwald has homo-erotic vibes - but consider that like female friendships, male friendships can be very deep and very close.
I am a proud MMADshipper. JK already sunk that ship and i didn't much care about that either, like i don't much care about this. My fantasyworld is not open to JK and her comments. It hardly cares about canon at all. In fact, if the books are in it, it is a miracle.
I wonder why people ask questions like the question that prompted this thread. Why are people so interested in other people's (or characters) sexuality? Would it change that person? Probably not, while your perception of this person does change.
In my case, Albus Dumbledore remains a flamboyant, well-spoken gentleman, a teacher, a mentor and above all, very much loved by his pupils and professors alike!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by dreaming tree on Oct 22, 2007 14:45:15 GMT -5
There was an article about Dumbledore's outing in my college paper today, and I just had to share what one girl said in it:
"I always hoped that Dumbledore and [Professor Minerva] McGonagall had something going on, but I guess not,"
I still need to re-read parts of DH with Dumbledore in it, but I've come to the conclusion that what JKR says is not going to influence how I think about AD/MM. There's plenty of other ships in HP that are way more out there than this one. So it's not cannon, does it really matter?
|
|
x
....it just has to...!!!!!
